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first of all NOT many good Yahudim followed the Kabbalah, which is mysticism at it's best so the 72 letter deal is pretty null and void for authenticity. 2nd the following was taught and encouraged by Yahushua the Messiah and was perhaps at best for Israel. But don't exclude the Gentiles if they were set apart. They were set apart IF and only IF they grafted into Israel. Othewise they would remain OUTSIDE of the Camp which would also mean outside the covenant. There is NO such thing as a Gentile Israelite. Once they graft in they are ONE with Israel and are NO LONGER a Gentile and are expected to fully comply with all that Israel followed (which would be the Torah and the Moadim (set apart times of YHVH) and NOT the church. The following apply completely to Israel.
Hos 2:16 “And it shall be, in that day,” declares יהוה, “that you call Me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer call Me ‘My Ba῾al.’
Hos 2:17 “And I shall remove the names of the Ba῾als from her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
Joel 2:32 “And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of יהוה shall be delivered.
Zech 8:23 “Thus said יהוה of hosts, ‘In those days ten men from all languages of the nations take hold, yea, they shall take hold of the tzitziot of a man, a Yehuḏite, saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that Elohim is with you.” ’ ”
Matt 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to complete.
Matt 5:18 “For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and the earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done.
Matt 5:19 “Whoever, then, breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the reign of the heavens; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the reign of the heavens.
John 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me possesses everlasting life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has disregarded the Torah of Mosheh dies without compassion on the witness of two or three witnesses.
Rev 22:14 “Blessed are those doing His commandments, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city.
All of the following applies to ISRAEL, those native born AND grafted in. If you're NOT Israel please disregard....you have NO covenant with YHVH. Sorry.
I've provided evidence that the Greek text is indeed inspired not the result of Hellenistic corruption as is being suggested. Paul and Peter both proclaim that Israel needs to be saved like the Gentiles through faith.
Over and over in the N.T. Romans 11:10-24, and others that tells me that the Gentiles were to become GRAFTED into Israel, the covenant people. Just as Israel is in blood covenant with Yah. We are grafted in to the covenant through the shed blood of Yashua/Jesus. We are to be in a covenant relationship, (blood Covenant) through Yashua with Yahovah. Israel is the apple of Yah's. eye, Yah. has not broken the covenant with Israel. Man breaks covenant's not Yahovah. I thank him that eyes were clouded, that I might receive salvation, but I always keep in mine (to the JEW first then to the Greek).
Last edited by standingdeer; 02-27-2012 at 04:34 PM..
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Acts 15:7-11
7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Sorry Richard it's the OTHER way around. Jews need to receive the Spirit of Grace through Faith like the Gentiles. It's exactly what Peter says in Acts 15:11
But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:11
To say Gentiles need to become Jews before becoming Christians is EXACTLY the error of the Galatians in which Paul rebuked.
Paul was rebuking the idea of circumcision not the following of Torah...
Ahh another confused Greco Roman interpretation. Shaul (Paul) NEVER spoke out against ANYTHING in the Torah (of which circumcision was included) it was a sign of the covenant to be placed upon a son of Israel. He also took one of the apostles out and got him cut (in case you forgot about that). HE was speaking out about the concept that one must come forth with a circumcised HEART above ALL, but not that they should not be circumcised. Sheesh...
Hoping to bring the topic back on track, more details about the manuscript finds have been revealed:
"there is a fragment of Mark, and it’s a very small fragment, not too many verses, but it’s definitely from Mark. And the most amazing thing about this is that it’s from the 1st Century. "
Entire interview here: The Hugh Hewitt Show
Hoping to bring the topic back on track, more details about the manuscript finds have been revealed:
"there is a fragment of Mark, and it’s a very small fragment, not too many verses, but it’s definitely from Mark. And the most amazing thing about this is that it’s from the 1st Century. "
Entire interview here: The Hugh Hewitt Show
Thanks for the link.
Again - he's being evasive (which is not normal in such an endeavor), and he admits that it must be tested by more paleographers (of course), but he's still confident that the mysterious, "reputable" paleographer (who won't reveal his name) has established a definite date within the 1st Century. One wouldn't normally make such an announcement, without providing evidence, unless one is merely trying to drum up publicity - or win a debate.
I still find the entire thing fishy. I predict an utter failure. I'll eat my words if I'm proven to be wrong - but the fact that he's publishing a book first, and then going through the peer-review process (from what I understand of his words - correct me if I'm misquoting him here) is highly unprofessional.
Who knows... all this will get publicity for him, though - and it has. But then, we've seen this type of stuff before from conservative scholars trying to find finds that they feel "seal the deal".
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