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May Yahovah be Blessed by the sound of His Holy Name. Thanks, when we use the Name it is truly a blessing to Him and ourselves. If it's YHWH, YHVH,YAHWEH, or YAHOVAH His name above all names. I chose to use Yah, makes it seam more personal.
Indeed it is a blessing to USE HIS REAL name. Not the pagan g-d or l-rd and such. Those come from Ba'al worship. HIS name was given in Exodus and several other scriptures and HE said to call upon HIS name, (not HIS title).
Indeed it is a blessing to USE HIS REAL name. Not the pagan g-d or l-rd and such. Those come from Ba'al worship. HIS name was given in Exodus and several other scriptures and HE said to call upon HIS name, (not HIS title).
Never made sense to me that an English translation of a word such as "god" would become just as superstitiously sacred as the actual name of the deity, to the point that they would write it as "g-d"....
It IS funny how "Lord" comes from the semitic root b'l - which was used for Ba'al the deity. The Bible itself makes fun of this wordplay in several instances when Yahweh basically asks "Either I am your Baal/baal or not - choose". Funny.
May Yahovah be Blessed by the sound of His Holy Name. Thanks, when we use the Name it is truly a blessing to Him and ourselves. If it's YHWH, YHVH,YAHWEH, or YAHOVAH His name above all names. I chose to use Yah, makes it seam more personal.
Indeed it is a blessing to USE HIS REAL name. Not the pagan g-d or l-rd and such. Those come from Ba'al worship. HIS name was given in Exodus and several other scriptures and HE said to call upon HIS name, (not HIS title).
So those are not Pagan names but titles...Yehovaw Elohim Hawyaw..Hawyaw ashur Hawyaw...Yehovaw's Name has 72 letters in it...
I disagree with both you and the author you reference. Julius Caesar wrote in Latin, Cicero wrote in Latin, Virgil wrote in Latin, Ovid wrote in Latin et cetera et cetra et cetera. The languages of Western Europe, what is now France and Italy and Spain and Portugal are the linguistic descendants of LATIN, not Greek.
Ya forgot Romanian...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann
It is true that there are some Greek words in English, but English is the linguistic descendant of German , with heavy French and less heavy Latin.
It is said that if one knows English then they have about 80% of the French language and where does French come from?...Latin and Gaulish...so, indirectly English is indeed descended from Latin...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann
This is because Alexander of Macedonia conquered the EASTERN Mediterranean and then Egypt and then Persia. The Hellenistic influence was in those areas. Alexander did not touch Italy or Sicily or western Europe, hence NO Hellenistic influence there.
Italy AND Sicily had plenty of Hellinistic influence...In fact three of the biggest most important City-States in Sicily were Greek...Catania (I was there), Messina and Siracusa...Even Calabria was heavily settled by the Greeks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann
Now then, Jesus may have spoken some Greek. But usually the way it worked in days of yore is that a conqueror came in, took over the machinery of government, and ordinary people kept on speaking their native language. If that were not true, how come there are identifiable (by language) Assyrians and Kurds and Armenians, and many more in areas long ago conquered by speakers of other languages? We have a more recent example. When the Normans conquered England, the natives continued to speak the Anglo-Saxon tongue promulgated by Alfred the Great centuries earlier.
When the Romans took over Israel, Israel was the only possession of the Roman Empire that did nt have to perform Emperor worship, they got to keep their religion AND language and there are many finds there dating to the time of Yeshua that were written in Hebrew or Aramaic, even a personal diary and store inventories...To state that the language was dead at that time is ridiculous...And the fact that most of the early church were Judaic converts it would also be ridiculous to state that the Apostles would have written to them in Greek, seeing as they were Hebrew...Even Polycarp states that things were written in the "tongue of the Hebrews" which would include Hebrew idiomatic usages...It is noted that even in the 'original' Greek that the idiomatic speeach contained in the Letters is not of the Greek thought process or idioms...So, with all this it may be concluded that the Letters were translations into Greek from the original Hebrew or Aramaic texts...
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann
It just so happens that I was schooled by one of the recognized (at the time) experts in Indo-European languages, and a renowned (at the time) linguist, so it will take a lot of good scholarship to persuade me to your point of view.
Why do you not give a name to this Expert?...I have been heavily involved in linguistics since the age of 8...And wrote papers in college regarding the evolutin of language and idioms due the migratory patterns of linguistic families...Take Ireland for instance, it was conqured by the Vikings, yet very little of the Old Norse language exists in the Irish language, as opposed to Scots Gaelic, the reason for this is that the Norse peoples were absorbed into the Irish society including taking on the Irish culture AND the Irish language and therefore became Irish...People misunderstand what a lingua franca is, it is not a replacement of the local language but an intermediary in order to communicate with other nationals from other nations...The fact is when Alexander the Great took over a nation, he did not impede their culture or language and left there society alone for he knew that attempting to Hellinize them would only bring rebellion...Therefore the Greek that was spoken at that time was not a replacement, but a second language so folks could communicate with others within the Empire that were of other conquered Nations...However, these were mostly goverment officials and merchants...I would say that most of the commoners rarely learned the Greek language...
Last edited by Richard1965; 02-27-2012 at 07:14 AM..
By the way - I appreciate your bravery in using a version of Yahweh. Well done! I wish more people did so!
Interesting that no writer in the New Testament used "Yahweh" or "Elohim."
Interesting also that the Greek Hebrew translators who translated Hebrew into the Greek (giving us the Septuagint) never brought "Yahweh" nor "Elohim" into their translation.
In my personal prayers I almost always address God as Yahweh, I don't think He is irked if I use the term "God."
That's exactly where they got it from.
The same applies to the familiar word "Hallelujah" (pronounced, of course, as "Hal-le-lu-yah") : "Praise Yah". It's found primarily in the Psalms.
The shortened form "Yah" appears in many theophoric names, as does "Yahu" - though the latter might more properly be called a variant name, rather than a shortened name; it's possible it preceded "Yahweh" in usage. The reason for the ambiguity in this area is that the letter "w" in Hebrew also doubles as a vowel sometimes (this wasn't always the case in the language - it eventually became a scribal attempt to mark some vowels). So when confronted with a consonantal word such as "bwh" without the later Masoretic vowel pointing, one could read that in several different ways: "ba-wah", "ba-wu-ach", "bo-ach", "bu-ach", etc.
This consonantal ambiguity is why scholars frequently emmend the Masoretic Text's vowel pointing, since many words' meaning became lost in time to even the scribes putting the vowel points in - heck, even within the period in which the Bible was being written down, some scribes were unclear as to the meanings or nuances of some of the older books' words. But now, thanks to scholarly emmendation in some case, many verses that were once obscure, have now been made quite clear by a simple re-pointing of the word.
A good example (many examples, actually) can be found in the notoriously difficult-to-translate Book of Job. The Jewish Publication Society's version relies heavily on the Masoretic Text (MT):
You will be sheltered from the scourging tongue;
You will have no fear when violence comes.
(Job 5:21, NJPS)
This translation uses the Masoretic Text's decision regarding the vowel pointing of šôḏ ("devastation, violence") in v. 21b, but produces a bad poetic parallelism with "scourging tongue" in the preceding line. With the simple emendation of the word's vowel, however, we can get Å¡ēḏ ("demon") in it's place:
From scourge of tongue you'll be hidden,
Nor fear a demon when he comes.
(Job 5:21, AB)
"Violence" or "devastation" becomes "demon" and the verse may make a little more sense since it is poetry, and poetry usually indulges in parallelism. While this sort of textual analysis is always risky, it must be remembered that the vowel pointing of the Masoretic Text occured virtually thousands of years after the original books were composed - so it's natural that mistakes and misunderstandings were to creep in. Those orthodox believers who claim that the MT has absolutely no mistakes and is in an unbroken line of transmission are just engaging in wishful thinking.
The Septuagint (LXX) - the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible - is also a good tool for comparing words to check the reliability of the Masoretic Text's choice of vowel pointing.
Anyways - I think I'm wandering far afield of the topic. I just can't resist talking about grammatical issues in the Biblical text heh heh! Hopefully, the above sheds a little more light on Yahweh, Yah and Yahu. As an additional note, the Jews who escaped to Egypt to avoid the Babylonian Exile did not use "Yahweh" in their writings and inscriptions, but preferred "Yahu". That should be an interesting tidbit for those interested in the evolution of the Name and it's usage.
Another interesting point of interest is when Yah became more widespread among Israelites: around the time of the United Monarchy. Before that time, the more Canaanitish name of God - 'El - was the more popular theophoric element. See the name of the people for a perfect example: Isra-EL (technically originally pronounced as Yis-ra-el, since "y" is the first letter of the name). An interesting compound of BOTH divine names is the woman in the Book of Judges who was handy with a tent peg: Jael (Yael, originally Ya'el). That pesky "j" confuses things so much - for reference's sake, there never was a letter that was pronounced like our "j" in Hebrew; it was always pronounced like our English "y", as in "yabba dabba doo". But most people know this, I think. It's those that still mistakenly use "Jehovah" that worry me.
There is NO "J" in Hebrew (hence no jesus nor Jahovah). In a Torah scroll in the Hebrew (the original real deal) you will never be able to find ONE "god" nor "lord" as they were injected into the English writings and have NO Place in the Torah. This is of course what Messiah and the Talmadim (apostles) taught from. Their reference to the mere word god would have stemmed from their communicating with others that had many gods so they would understand that Elohim was the ONE TRUE God of Avraham, Itzchak and Ya'acov. Indeed prayers would be best addressing HIM as the best pronunciation of YHVH you could muster up. Better to try to get it right then botching it entirely. In the Torah HIS name is "4" letters Yod Hey Vav (or waw) Hey. I prefer to pronounce it "Yahveh" but we won't argue over that small detail.
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