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Yes, I am sure of the Hebrew Text, NOT Aramaic/Syriac to Greek, but paleo-Hebrew. It was the written language before the modern form of the Hebrew language came to life.
Matt. was a tax collector for the Romans to collect from the Hebrew people. I not saying that no Hebrew spoke Greek, but your average household didn't. Business between Hebrew and Roman Had to be carried out. I am sure that Romans had to speak Hebrew as well fore business sake. Translators were used as well, I would think.
Last edited by standingdeer; 02-24-2012 at 11:40 AM..
Aramaic was the standard lingua franca of the jews at the time, and only the most learned knew how to speak hebrew, which had grown out of fashion among the common people. The jews of alexandria spoke greek fluently which is where the Septuagint came from - to deal with the lack of hebrew among the jews living there, except for the learn ed. Greek might have been spoken by many jews living in judea in first century a d, but once again it might have been limited to the leaned.
Even in biblical late times hebrew had fallen out of favor as the common speech of the jews living in judea - see the exchange at the wall where the people ask for the invaders to speak in a certain language that the common people could not understand, giving evidence of the aramaic popularity.
That greek was known by some of the new testament writers is evidenced by the many biblical quotations from the greek Septuagint.
Why is it so hard for some to even think that it IS possible that the Scriptures were written in Hebrew? I am not trying to prove anything because I am Jewish, I am not. I use to think pretty much like everyone else. Took what I was taught by my denomination, and the interpretation of the day, and was sure that everything was okay. Until I started to ask why we do some of the things that weren't in the bible? Yes folks are right, the Greek influence in the bible very clear. Constantine tried to completely remove anything that remotely looked Jewish. To the point of death to those that continued to keep the Sabbath and Feasts of God. I looked to Yah. for answers, and got a lot more than I asked for. I thank Him for that. Yashua/Jesus is my Messiah and I look forward to his Reign.
No I don't keep the holidays of Xmas, Easter or any of the Saint days, I celebrate Passover because Yahsua/Jesus WAS THE Passover Lamb of my salvation. I also try to keep the Sabbath.
Last edited by standingdeer; 02-25-2012 at 08:48 AM..
I'd say YOU are on point there Standingdeer The sooner others figure out their Hebrew roots the better. Yahushua is comin back and HE won't be wearing a cross on HIS chest. Most probably a Magan David
Yes, I am sure of the Hebrew Text, NOT Aramaic/Syriac to Greek, but paleo-Hebrew. It was the written language before the modern form of the Hebrew language came to life.
I tend to agree with you. We must remember that only a very small percentage of people of the day were literate, meaning very few could read and write.
If one accepts the speculation that Jesus was a "tekton" meaning skilled labor who once upon a time worked building the city of Sephoros, then He may have spoken enough Greek to deal with the representatives of the ruling class to clarify orders and changes. Other than that He may or may not have been literate. We certainly have no evidence that Jesus ever wrote anything.
One must consider that none of the apostles were literate, probably not bilingual, and may have dictated to scribes using the one language they spoke, probably aramaic. I guess I fall into the camp that many of the earliest NT documents were originally written in aramaic of Hebrew, quickly translated into Greek, and given the tumultuous history of Jerusalem from say 50-150AD, those original documents were lost and what survived were the Greek translations of the diaspora, as you put it. (Which further complicates the argument about original language and original meaning. Given the way the Christian Churches over the centuries bungled the translations and meaning f the OT, why should we be surprised that the same kind of thing may have happened with the NT)
Paul was well educated, was a Roman citizen, and probably bilingual. Roman citizen implies latin, but given the area, Greek was more likely. But Paul too probably dictated to a scribe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by standingdeer
Matt. was a tax collector for the Romans to collect from the Hebrew people. I not saying that no Hebrew spoke Greek, but your average household didn't. Business between Hebrew and Roman Had to be carried out. I am sure that Romans had to speak Hebrew as well fore business sake. Translators were used as well, I would think.
I imagine that almost all ordinary commerce was done using fingers to indicate price when the parties did not speak a common language. My wife and I sometimes shop in local Mexican markets, where hardly a word of English is spoke, but we manage and the shopkeepers make a little money from us.
dcisive, No cross, just (THE KINGS CROWN.)
Sometimes I question why I even try, but then I have to say, I know why I try, For the Love of Messiah!
Saul/Paul not only was he a Roman citizen, but also educated at the feet of Gamaliel, Paul a Pharisee, that spoke Hebrew/Greek, and maybe other languages. Well educated indeed. Not all were that well educated.
Last edited by standingdeer; 02-25-2012 at 12:46 PM..
You all still miss my point. These were Hebrews who knew and thought in the Hebrew mindset, NOT Greek, nor did they write in Greek but rather Aramaic and Hebrew. You can say what you wish it won't change the REALITY that that is who these men were. They were NOT Greeks. If you have a smidgen of a concept of their culture you wouldn't even argue this point. So I won't either. It is what it is. These men undoubtedly wrote in Aramaic or Hebrew 1st. It was translated into a language that does NOT convey the proper context and intent of the native language. Good luck with that.....
RESPONSE:
You really need to look this up. Koine Greek was virtually the universal lannguage. The Romans didn't speak Latin , they spoke koine Greek. If somebody wanted to write a scripture that Gentiles could read, they wrote in koine Greek.
You really need to look this up. Koine Greek was virtually the universal lannguage. The Romans didn't speak Latin , they spoke koine Greek. If somebody wanted to write a scripture that Gentiles could read, they wrote in koine Greek.
I disagree with both you and the author you reference. Julius Caesar wrote in Latin, Cicero wrote in Latin, Virgil wrote in Latin, Ovid wrote in Latin et cetera et cetra et cetera. The languages of Western Europe, what is now France and Italy and Spain and Portugal are the linguistic descendants of LATIN, not Greek.
It is true that there are some Greek words in English, but English is the linguistic descendant of German , with heavy French and less heavy Latin.
This is because Alexander of Macedonia conquered the EASTERN Mediterranean and then Egypt and then Persia. The Hellenistic influence was in those areas. Alexander did not touch Italy or Sicily or western Europe, hence NO Hellenistic influence there.
Now then, Jesus may have spoken some Greek. But usually the way it worked in days of yore is that a conqueror came in, took over the machinery of government, and ordinary people kept on speaking their native language. If that were not true, how come there are identifiable (by language) Assyrians and Kurds and Armenians, and many more in areas long ago conquered by speakers of other languages? We have a more recent example. When the Normans conquered England, the natives continued to speak the Anglo-Saxon tongue promulgated by Alfred the Great centuries earlier.
It just so happens that I was schooled by one of the recognized (at the time) experts in Indo-European languages, and a renowned (at the time) linguist, so it will take a lot of good scholarship to persuade me to your point of view.
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The sooner others figure out their Hebrew roots the better. Yahushua is comin back and HE won't be wearing a cross on HIS chest. Most probably a Magan David
