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No TwinSpin what it boils down to is your inability to see beyond sin and the grave,thus limiting the love,grace,mercy and forgiveness of God.
Where sin abounds the grace of God over abounds......... You do not believe this. You believe sin is greater than the over abounding grace of God.
Correct ... I do not believe in the haters of God with their deceptive empty words of "Jesus loves me this I know ... and that is all I need to know" when God said otherwise:
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrathagainst yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
Revelation 14:10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
Correct ... I do not believe in the haters of God with their deceptive empty words of "Jesus loves me this I know ... and that is all I need to know" when God said otherwise:
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them. Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrathagainst yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Revelation 14:10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
Yes, 'tormented' Not 'tortured '.
In the first century a 'tormentor' [not a torturer ] was a jailer.- Matthew 18 vs 30,34
The 'burning sulfur' is symbolic as the fire and brimstone which by definition is: 'second death' at Rev. 21 v 8
No 'get out of jail free' card for those destroyed in 'second death' .
Please also notice the connection of 'torment' at Rev. 14 v 11 with 'smoke'.
When a house burns down what remains is not flames but smoke.
At Isaiah 34 v 10 mentions the smoke of Edom going up forever.
We know Edom is not still burning or smoking today, but was destroyed.
So, isn't such burning or smoke a biblical expression for destruction ?
Correct ... I do not believe in the haters of God with their deceptive empty words of "Jesus loves me this I know ... and that is all I need to know" when God said otherwise:
John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrathagainst yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.
Ephesians 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
Revelation 14:10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
Now the judgment (crisis) of this world is coming on [sentence is now being passed on this world]. Now the ruler (evil genius, prince) of this world shall be cast out (expelled).
How we love to put those who are not on board with what we believe, in fear of a future lashing and eternal destruction to get them to believe like us. A giant red flag if there ever was one.
Knowing that God is able to see beyond us missing the mark and still love us in our failure to hit a bullseye is enough for anyone to come to their senses and return to back to the living God. Condemning them to hell for missing the bullseye you are serving the devil and all you will create is bigger children of hell than yourself
You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are. Matt 23:15
Have you seriously ever wondered TwinSpin what they were being converted to( obviously not the Way of Christ)Bearing in mind those who travelled land and sea in their own eyes were staunch bible believers ?. What do you think they were being converted to ? The bible they believed in ?, the man with the beard ?.
Agree as Jesus taught that there are those who will 'perish' ? ______ [ be destroyed ]
So do I, I know numerous people whose lives have been restored after being destroyed( I'm a living testimony of it). I will restore unto you the years the destroying locusts have eaten. Matt try seeing beyond a literal understanding of the scripture.
Heavens peace and perfect justice kissed a lost world in love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
I can agree with that. John 3:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
We reap what we sow. Even destruction is reforming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
Agree as Jesus taught that there are those who will 'perish' ? ______ [ be destroyed ]
Jesus never taught permanent destruction of individuals . . . only of their wickedness . . . and never as punishment but as correction. Permanent ANYTHING does not allow for correction. This primitive theme of punishment and payment for tarnishing God's holiness or some such is false doctrine. Our species was failing to produce the kind of Spirits (consciousness) that could ever be united with God. We would have remained eternally separate from God until a HUMAN Spirit (consciousness) united with God in perfect resonance (IDENTITY). THAT is what Jesus SAVED us from by His perfect Human Spirit (consciousness) . . . and it applies to our entire species. THAT is our salvation. It is through our connection to Jesus that we achieve connection to God.
But NONE of that changes OUR requirement to produce Spirits that are at least in some harmonic resonance with Jesus' Love for us ALL (agape). Repentance is how we "relive" the dissonant (off key) moments of our lives (sinful) and "tune our Spirit" to agape love. Those who do not know Jesus or who are blindly rebellious or evil in their Spirit are STILL eternal . . . but they may NOT be fit to be in the presence of God if their states of mind are dissonant and discordant (off-key).
They may need to spend some time "refining their understanding" and reprocess any evil in their lives in light of the truth of God. I usually am reluctant to discuss what my view of this after death "refinement" would be like. But there are so many here who seem not to understand why it is NOT punishment . . . but still involves negative consequences. It will NOT be pleasant to "relive" in their consciousness whatever unrepentant evil they wrought (surrounded by others of like mind) in the glare of God's pure love. They will have to spiritually "feel for themselves" all the negative consequences they inflicted on each and every human being who they affected by their evil . . . one by one. Some will have much to relive spiritually . . . others less so . . . but ALL will be permanently changed by it and come to understand Jesus intimately and His commands to "love God and each other." Their evilness will perish . . . be refined out as dross . . . but they will NOT.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 04-13-2013 at 08:21 PM..
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