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God is capable of the supernatural, and so is Satan. That would make a good topic for another thread, or maybe you can bumb one of the old ones about it.
Finn Jarber do you also believe the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil that Adam and his Missus were told not to eat of, were literal trees ?.*
Yes or No ? ( you demand yes or no answers )
The questions about the OT are not Yes or No questions.
#1. The bible is NOT a history book . . . so whether or not the events happened is irrelevant.
#2. The stories are examples for our instruction. It is the lessons in the stories that are important . . . not whether or not they actually happened.
#3. None of the stories can be used to claim "God did anything" because our ignorant savage ancestors simply believed God did everything . . . making their testimony worthless.
I believe the story describes the terrible destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. I do not believe God did it. That does not mean it cannot be used by Jesus as an example of horrible consequences . . . because it is an excellent example. The point is that the people He was talking to knew of and believed the stories. Christ using them as examples to illustrate His points does not mean He is validating the stories as true. He is just using their knowledge of them and their beliefs about them to make His points. The Bible is for Spiritual instruction . . .NOT historical documentation. We read it spiritually to learn the lessons in it . . . not to learn history. NOT true. It is not meaningless . . . that IS a misrepresentation. It has to be interpreted using Christ's revelations about God's True Nature . . . a very different issue. I explained why they are not yes or no questions . . . ignore it if you wish. I do not believe God destroyed anybody for any reason, period . . . because Jesus Christ did NOT . . . and He had plenty of opportunity and reasons to do so! The nature of Jesus Christ IS the nature of our God. You believe otherwise at your peril.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
How do you explain the fact that Jesus talked about their destruction in the NT? Why would He lie about it? Why would he lie about the flood?
It seems people like to have their cake and eat it too. They want to say they trust the OT, and at the same time they reject the stories in it.
No one REJECTS the stories in it, Finn . . . that is more misrepresentation. I believe the story describes the terrible destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. I do not believe God did it. That does not mean it cannot be used by Jesus as an example of horrible consequences . . . because it is an excellent example. The point is that the people He was talking to knew of and believed the stories. Christ using them as examples to illustrate His points does not mean He is validating the stories as true. He is just using their knowledge of them and their beliefs about them to make His points. The Bible is for Spiritual instruction . . . NOT historical documentation. We read it spiritually to learn the lessons in it . . . not to learn history.
So you demand an answer about sodom and Gomorrah but refuse to answer a similar question from the Old Testament . How can you be debated in a fair way, when you set the rules ?.
I am not refusing anything, it just happens to be off topic and has nothing to do with character of God in OT vs NT. Destruction of Sodom has everything to do with it, because God made it happen. I will not help you derail the thread.
No one REJECTS the stories in it, Finn . . . that is more misrepresentation. I believe the story describes the terrible destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. I do not believe God did it.
It is not a misrepresentation, since the Bible says God destroyed the cities, and you say He did not. It means you REJECT the story as it is written. You are saying you have a different version of it, but it still means you reject the version in the Bible. Quit accusing people of misrepresenting you, when they are only going by what you say.
So, since you reject the idea that it was God, do you think it was an accident / natural disaster, or you think someone else did it?
I am not refusing anything, it just happens to be off topic and has nothing to do with character of God in OT vs NT. Destruction of Sodom has everything to do with it, because God made it happen. I will not help you derail the thread, but to give a quick answer, the word which is used to descibe the snake is "nachash", which means 'beast of the field', and if you prefer to think of it as a literal snake (because it can mean snake), then that is up to you. It makes no difference, and it is off topic, so don't expect me to entertain this any further.
Well what does sodom and Gomorrah have to do with being on topic and you demanding a yes or no answer whether it literally happened or not then ?. Why did you go off topic on this thread by asking this question ?.
So do you believe in a talking beast that having been told it is cursed, is now on its belly?.Yes or no. I am trying to get you to see the futility and danger of taking everything in the Old Testament literally to the point it contradicts God revealed in Christ.
I am not refusing anything, it just happens to be off topic and has nothing to do with character of God in OT vs NT. Destruction of Sodom has everything to do with it, because God made it happen. I will not help you derail the thread.
Your question about sodom and Gomorrah had nothing to with the character of God, and everything to do whether it literally happened or not. Derail a thread ?. Are you kidding ?, I will do anything to have this thread continued to expose the contradiction of denying that ALL that Jesus Christ IS and taught is opposite of how he was thought to be by those who never knew him,as depicted in the Old Testament.
God is capable of the supernatural, and so is Satan. That would make a good topic for another thread, or maybe you can bumb one of the old ones about it.
Who created Satan?
Who lets Satan do what he wants?
Whose authority is higher than Satans?
Satan is not a god of evil. Satan is like a prosecutor in a court who comes to the Judge and tasks him with testing you, he gambles your fate against All-Fire.
Read the book of Job.
There is no supreme evil except fear and closed mindedness both of which are human in nature. It is from these two things that frustration, anger, hate, and war are born. It is from being so set in our ways that all forms of sin are born.
"My Words are my fire they who do not heed them, shall be consumed by them and burn."
Ok so if I start a new thread about a literal talking devilish beast that turned into a snake,and literal trees in the garden of Eden that Adam and his Missus could eat from, you would give a yes or no answer to whether you believe the account in Gen 3 is literal or not ?. By doing so you would be showing good will that you are not avoiding a yes or no answer, which you demand from others.
Mystic and others, I am sorry I did not get around to starting this thread yesterday. I was quite busy. I usually do not have time to read post completely and often skip lengthy ones altogether. So Maybe I have missed some of this. I have noticed that you do not, as I understand it, believe the God we read about who spoke to Moses and lead the People of Israel and who caused the flood is not the god that the "Jesus" you accept is from/of/is (however you choose to view him). Is that an accurate understanding of your faith?
Also you seem to believe that most if not all of the Old Testament that deals with God and His commands and judgments are fictitious works of man or at least his misunderstanding of what the real god you believe in intended. Is this right or not?
Also you view the New Testament as partially correct when the text is in line with your view or what you feel the "christ in you" is telling you, of what your "Jesus" came to teach and reveal about your god and other parts that you do on feel this "christ in you" confirms are man's ignorance and confusion. Is this right or not?
I often feel like when I am trying to discuss something with you that I give you it's like we are playing a sporting game and I try to show you the rules of the football game I am playing and you come back with the rules to golf you are playing.
PS: I may be away at times and not respond as quickly as normal. Due to the nature of my work this is a very busy time for me at the moment.
Finn Jarber my comments about talking devilish beasts are no more off topic than you demanding yes or answers about Sodom and Gomorrah. What I am trying to do in exposing your blind faith in a literal understanding of everything you read in your bible, is to get you to see, is that your blind faith in literalism is veiling your understanding of what Jesus Christ taught about God and those who penned the Old Testament scriptures about what they thought God was and is, are not compatible.
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