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Not all UR's believe there is no hell...actually, probably most of them do believe there is some kind of Age(s) lasting punishment like hell that is not eternal. Even among the more liberal URs here there is still some kind of afterlife accountability...But even if there wasn't, if you had a child who was going to save all of humanity with his sacrifice and he had the perfect teaching that would make the world a better place, would you not want those who knew him to evangelize him?
Is the God of the Old Testament the same God Jesus taught of?
Of course God is the same. There is only ONE. What has changed (or SHOULD have) since Christ . . . is what we humans believe ABOUT Him. Unfortunately, too many of those who would be Christians . . . reject Christ's revelation about God and retain our ignorant ancestors' superstitions and beliefs ABOUT God. I have no idea how this travesty has withstood 2000+ years of knowledge and understanding . . . other than the stumbling block of religious leaders wishing to retain power, control, church membership and money through continued fear-mongering. Fear is incompatible with love . . . and Christ's Gospel was all about God's love for us all. Retaining fear (even some absurd "awe and reverential" fear) . . . corrupts the "love of God and each other" that Christ commanded of us. That is Satan's work . . . not God's. I do not think God is pleased with those who have perpetrated this travesty over the centuries and even into the modern era. They carry a heavy burden, IMO.
Of course God is the same. There is only ONE. What has changed (or SHOULD have) since Christ . . . is what we humans believe ABOUT Him. Unfortunately, too many of those who would be Christians . . . reject Christ's revelation about God and retain our ignorant ancestors' superstitions and beliefs ABOUT God. I have no idea how this travesty has withstood 2000+ years of knowledge and understanding . . . other than the stumbling block of religious leaders wishing to retain power, control, church membership and money through continued fear-mongering. Fear is incompatible with love . . . and Christ's Gospel was all about God's love for us all. Retaining fear (even some absurd "awe and reverential" fear) . . . corrupts the "love of God and each other" that Christ commanded of us. That is Satan's work . . . not God's. I do not think God is pleased with those who have perpetrated this travesty over the centuries and even into the modern era. They carry a heavy burden, IMO.
Of course God is the same. There is only ONE. What has changed (or SHOULD have) since Christ . . . is what we humans believe ABOUT Him. Unfortunately, too many of those who would be Christians . . . reject Christ's revelation about God and retain our ignorant ancestors' superstitions and beliefs ABOUT God. I have no idea how this travesty has withstood 2000+ years of knowledge and understanding . . . other than the stumbling block of religious leaders wishing to retain power, control, church membership and money through continued fear-mongering. Fear is incompatible with love . . . and Christ's Gospel was all about God's love for us all. Retaining fear (even some absurd "awe and reverential" fear) . . . corrupts the "love of God and each other" that Christ commanded of us. That is Satan's work . . . not God's. I do not think God is pleased with those who have perpetrated this travesty over the centuries and even into the modern era. They carry a heavy burden, IMO.
If that claim was correct, it would mean that God has failed miserably in revealing the truth to those who seek Him. It would also mean that Jesus made an empty promise when He said that seekers will find. Luckily we know the claim is not true.
Of course God is the same. There is only ONE. What has changed (or SHOULD have) since Christ . . . is what we humans believe ABOUT Him. Unfortunately, too many of those who would be Christians . . . reject Christ's revelation about God and retain our ignorant ancestors' superstitions and beliefs ABOUT God. I have no idea how this travesty has withstood 2000+ years of knowledge and understanding . . . other than the stumbling block of religious leaders wishing to retain power, control, church membership and money through continued fear-mongering. Fear is incompatible with love . . . and Christ's Gospel was all about God's love for us all. Retaining fear (even some absurd "awe and reverential" fear) . . . corrupts the "love of God and each other" that Christ commanded of us. That is Satan's work . . . not God's. I do not think God is pleased with those who have perpetrated this travesty over the centuries and even into the modern era. They carry a heavy burden, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
If that claim was correct, it would mean that God has failed miserably in revealing the truth to those who seek Him. It would also mean that Jesus made an empty promise when He said that seekers will find. Luckily we know the claim is not true.
God has not failed, Finn . . . we have. You seem to forget God does NOT control us. The refusal to reject what our ignorant ancestors believed ABOUT God is what corrupted Christ's Gospel after His death. They were told what they were given was only "carnal milk" because they were not yet ready to understand. Instead of maturing in understanding over the centuries and trying to understand the "solid food" . . . the religious leaders corrupted Christ's message of Love with "precepts and doctrines of men" enshrining our ignorant savage ancestors' beliefs about Jehovah and blood sacrifices. They institutionalized the doctrines and demanded that followers retain the ancient ignorance as a sign of Faith in God. They do indeed carry a heavy burden, IMO.
God has not failed, Finn . . . we have. You seem to forget God does NOT control us. The refusal to reject what our ignorant ancestors believed ABOUT God is what corrupted Christ's Gospel after His death. They were told what they were given was only "carnal milk" because they were not yet ready to understand. Instead of maturing in understanding over the centuries and trying to understand the "solid food" . . . the religious leaders corrupted Christ's message of Love with "precepts and doctrines of men" enshrining our ignorant savage ancestors' beliefs about Jehovah and blood sacrifices. They institutionalized the doctrines and demanded that followers retain the ancient ignorance as a sign of Faith in God. They do indeed carry a heavy burden, IMO.
So exactly what does God do today since He is not in control?
God has not failed, Finn . . . we have. You seem to forget God does NOT control us. The refusal to reject what our ignorant ancestors believed ABOUT God is what corrupted Christ's Gospel after His death. They were told what they were given was only "carnal milk" because they were not yet ready to understand. Instead of maturing in understanding over the centuries and trying to understand the "solid food" . . . the religious leaders corrupted Christ's message of Love with "precepts and doctrines of men" enshrining our ignorant savage ancestors' beliefs about Jehovah and blood sacrifices. They institutionalized the doctrines and demanded that followers retain the ancient ignorance as a sign of Faith in God. They do indeed carry a heavy burden, IMO.
I agree that we have free will. Tens of millions of people have used that free will to seek the Lord, but you are saying they did not find Him. Jesus said those who seek, will find, and I know He spoke the truth. Mystic, tens of millions of seekers have found Him, and have been feasting on the "meat" for ages. You can't accept it, because they do not share your views about universalism, but it is true nontheless.
God has not failed, Finn . . . we have. You seem to forget God does NOT control us. The refusal to reject what our ignorant ancestors believed ABOUT God is what corrupted Christ's Gospel after His death. They were told what they were given was only "carnal milk" because they were not yet ready to understand. Instead of maturing in understanding over the centuries and trying to understand the "solid food" . . . the religious leaders corrupted Christ's message of Love with "precepts and doctrines of men" enshrining our ignorant savage ancestors' beliefs about Jehovah and blood sacrifices. They institutionalized the doctrines and demanded that followers retain the ancient ignorance as a sign of Faith in God. They do indeed carry a heavy burden, IMO.
your ignorant ancestors are in hell if they rejected Jehovah, the one true God that came as Jesus Christ.
God has not failed, Finn . . . we have. You seem to forget God does NOT control us. The refusal to reject what our ignorant ancestors believed ABOUT God is what corrupted Christ's Gospel after His death. They were told what they were given was only "carnal milk" because they were not yet ready to understand. Instead of maturing in understanding over the centuries and trying to understand the "solid food" . . . the religious leaders corrupted Christ's message of Love with "precepts and doctrines of men" enshrining our ignorant savage ancestors' beliefs about Jehovah and blood sacrifices. They institutionalized the doctrines and demanded that followers retain the ancient ignorance as a sign of Faith in God. They do indeed carry a heavy burden, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
So exactly what does God do today since He is not in control?
Since the death and rebirth of Christ as Spirit . . . God guides us through His Holy Spirit (Comforter). We exercise our will to accept or reject that guidance. We will reap what we sow . . . but we are "saved as by fire."
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It would seem to me that the God who is love would prefer that as well.
Is the God of the Old Testament the same God Jesus taught of?
