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Where did you get the idea that St. John cared for the Virgin Mary after the crucifixion?
But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.
-- John 19:25-27
If Jesus supposedly had all these brothers and sisters running around, why was Mary given into the care of John?
But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.
-- John 19:25-27
If Jesus supposedly had all these brothers and sisters running around, why was Mary given into the care of John?
We already saw earlier in the Gospels that Jesus' brothers thought he was nuts. They apparently were not impressed with him getting himself crucified, and were not likely there to watch it.
raymond lull the great scholar from mayorca is attributed to writing the doctrine that defends the churchs assertion that mother mary is diety. i think in the churchs attempt to assimilate many earth mother religions it made a sharp turn in the road on this one.
We already saw earlier in the Gospels that Jesus' brothers thought he was nuts. They apparently were not impressed with him getting himself crucified, and were not likely there to watch it.
Hey Vizio:
IN religion anything goes. That is why is called religion!
And different religions do not have to be in agreement.
I understand why Protestants are indifferent about Mary or about her virginity. Different religion, different perspective.
But standing by the cross of Jesus were His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. When Jesus then saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold, your son!” Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.
-- John 19:25-27
If Jesus supposedly had all these brothers and sisters running around, why was Mary given into the care of John?
Jesus' brothers and sisters were likely not present at the crucifixion but were in Galilee and were not in a position to care for Mary who needed comforting then and there. John, the beloved disciple, who possibly was related to her, was there. And seeing the sorrow of His mother which fulfilled Simeons prophecy,
Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, "Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed; 35]and a sword will pierce even your own soul-- to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed."
Jesus, having compassion for His mother, honored her by placing her into the care of John. Furthermore, at that time none of Jesus' brothers or sisters had believed on Him yet. As F. F. Bruce writes,
'The brothers of Jesus were still too unsympathetic to him to be entrusted with her care in this sad hour; in any case, they may not have been in Jerusalem at the time.' [The Gospel of John, F. F. Bruce, p. 371]
It was fitting therefore for Jesus to entrust John with His mother's care who from that time took her into his own house.
Jesus' brothers and sisters were likely not present at the crucifixion but were in Galilee and were not in a position to care for Mary who needed comforting then and there. John, the beloved disciple, who possibly was related to her, was there. And seeing the sorrow of His mother which fulfilled Simeons prophecy,
Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, "Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed; 35]and a sword will pierce even your own soul-- to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed."
Jesus, having compassion for His mother, honored her by placing her into the care of John. Furthermore, at that time none of Jesus' brothers or sisters had believed on Him yet. As F. F. Bruce writes,
'The brothers of Jesus were still too unsympathetic to him to be entrusted with her care in this sad hour; in any case, they may not have been in Jerusalem at the time.' [The Gospel of John, F. F. Bruce, p. 371]
It was fitting therefore for Jesus to entrust John with His mother's care who from that time took her into his own house.
IN religion anything goes. That is why is called religion!
And different religions do not have to be in agreement.
I understand why Protestants are indifferent about Mary or about her virginity. Different religion, different perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
Jesus' brothers and sisters were likely not present at the crucifixion but were in Galilee and were not in a position to care for Mary who needed comforting then and there. John, the beloved disciple, who possibly was related to her, was there. And seeing the sorrow of His mother which fulfilled Simeons prophecy,
Luke 2:34 And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, "Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a sign to be opposed; 35]and a sword will pierce even your own soul-- to the end that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed."
Jesus, having compassion for His mother, honored her by placing her into the care of John. Furthermore, at that time none of Jesus' brothers or sisters had believed on Him yet. As F. F. Bruce writes,
'The brothers of Jesus were still too unsympathetic to him to be entrusted with her care in this sad hour; in any case, they may not have been in Jerusalem at the time.' [The Gospel of John, F. F. Bruce, p. 371]
It was fitting therefore for Jesus to entrust John with His mother's care who from that time took her into his own house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian658
And religion provides an explanation.
We are dealing with reality. With actual history. Not with fictional stories which can be altered to suit your fancy because, to quote you, ''in religion anything goes.''
We are dealing with reality. With actual history. Not with fictional stories which can be altered to suit your fancy because, to quote you, ''in religion anything goes.''
It all boils down to "My religion is better than yours".
Or "we right, you are wrong".
And I think that is silly when discussing religion.
It all boils down to "My religion is better than yours".
Or "we right, you are wrong".
And I think that is silly when discussing religion.
No. It does not boil down to 'my religion is better than yours'. Jesus was an actual historical person. Mary was an actual historical person. The events in their lives had real physical occurrences in history. The apostle Matthew, and Luke, who were actual historical persons record in their respective gospel accounts that Mary was kept a virgin until she gave birth to Jesus and that Jesus was her first born, and that Jesus had brothers and sisters.
I realize that tradition can have a strong hold on people and can ensnare them. But if tradition is at variance with what history records then if one values truth and self honesty one must make all effort at being objective. But if a person prefers to hold with tradition simply because his 'religion' teaches it, then that is what he will do.
No. It does not boil down to 'my religion is better than yours'. Jesus was an actual historical person. Mary was an actual historical person. The events in their lives had real physical occurrences in history. The apostle Matthew, and Luke, who were actual historical persons record in their respective gospel accounts that Mary was kept a virgin until she gave birth to Jesus and that Jesus was her first born, and that Jesus had brothers and sisters.
I realize that tradition can have a strong hold on people and can ensnare them. But if tradition is at variance with what history records then if one values truth and self honesty one must make all effort at being objective. But if a person prefers to hold with tradition simply because his 'religion' teaches it, then that is what he will do.
Very eloquently stated.
But, ultimately you are using the Bible to state your case. And the case is every strongly in favor of Mary Losing her virginity. But, within the context of religion she can be called a Virgin. It is just a different perspective of Catholicism which does not solely rely on the Bible.
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