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The errors are quite evident the dashing of babies head, wiping out entire families stoning folk to death for picking up sticks on the sabbath all being endorsed by God. How you don't get that what Jesus taught completely contradicts this is beyond me.
OK, so are you FINALLY going to give an example of something that was written in your heart, but cannot be found in the Bible. The floor is yours.
This is the final post to you if you still fail to produce one.
I did not understand the question as originally asked by you, Twin ("how long should the not-wicked be not-tormented?") I didn't say I didn't understand the new question that you asked, only that I couldn't really answer it as posed because it makes assumptions that I do not.
I did replace the "verbiage", and I answered the question in my last post to you. To repeat:
Now you're asking how long should the "wicked" be tormented before they "reach utopia"? That's a different question completely. And it assumes that I believe that people are wicked, or that God torments people --- which I do not --- so I can't answer it as asked. But I can tell you that I believe that whatever is in me that is not in harmony with the God who is love will need to be dealt with, some way, some how.It will take as long as it takes, but it won't take forever.
I don't know how long it will take for God to complete the process, I just trust that God will complete it.
Now, are you satisfied that I have answered your question? Or is there something more that you want to ask?
pleroo,
It will take as long as it takes, but it won't take forever. ... I don't know how long it will take for God to complete the process, I just trust that God will complete it.
is a non-answer answer for you have no scriptural basis of non-wicked people remaining nor the green bold. It's just plain intellectual dishonesty to say one situation is forever while the other is not ... that one is God's will but the other is not.
I liken this (arguing with Finn) to a math professor who devoted his life teaching a theory he's been working on when someone comes into his class, changes one of the equations and PROVES his theory wrong. The professor, rather than thanking the student, kicks him out of the class, erases what he did and then continues to teach his false theory.
Only God can change a heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Except, that in this case I PROVED the others wrong, and yet they continue as if nothing happened.
That's the part you forgot to mention in your example, Zero. The professor erases what was written and then claims he proved it to be wrong!! Then he claims no one can prove his theory wrong no matter how often he asks them to . . . then continues to teach his false theory. Blatantly ignoring or denying what has been presented multiple times . . . is a tactic that has wide use among the Fundies, Zero.
OK, so are you FINALLY going to give an example of something that was written in your heart, but cannot be found in the Bible. The floor is yours.
This is the final post to you if you still fail to produce one.
God is speaking to us by the Life within us, i know this is a hard concept for you, because you do not understand that Christ is alive in you, your reliance is upon the bible that is interpreted in scores of different ways. The truth is you are not accepting of the things that are there and are accepting of things that are not there which depict God like a devil, so how on earth could you ever be accepting of something that is a spiritual truth that is not there.
Tell me where did the wisdom of Solomon come from ?, God or the bible ?. Tell me how did Abraham Isaac and Know what they knew about God without a bible?, tell me which bible David use to discover and describe God in so many ways and how he believed God saw him?. Which bible did Zephaniah discover the Lord rejoices over us with singing ?.
I find it hard not to believe you worship the bible over the one it testifies of who speaks directly to the hearts of men without the aid of the bible in old testament times, how much more under the new testament days ?.
I think reading the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 2 would be a good thing for you to do, hopefully you will see that the Spirit of God within us,is more than capable of speaking to us and leading us from within. Also notice the lack of the bible being mentioned.
Well there you have it folks. You ask them a simple question, which they cannot answer, and as opposed to admitting it, they pretend their failure to answer somehow proved them right. You can't make it up
Well there you have it folks. You ask them a simple question, which they cannot answer, and as opposed to admitting it, they pretend their failure to answer somehow proved them right. You can't make it up
Did you answer mine. I asked you if you believe that God will still be loving those people that enter Eternal Torment? Even after they enter it?
My prayer for the UR folk: O Lord, please remove the verses from Your Word, which speak of Eternal Seperation and punishment upon those who reject Jesus in this life.
Apparently you have not comprehended the entire underlying premise of this thread. You clearly will only and always believe that the BIBLE is GOD's WORD, rather than understanding that Jesus Christ is the WORD of GOD, not the B-I-B-L-E. Those who never get that will never come to the knowledge of the truth. Period.
Well there you have it folks. You ask them a simple question, which they cannot answer, and as opposed to admitting it, they pretend their failure to answer somehow proved them right. You can't make it up
I have never known anyone like yourself to dance around simple questions put to you. This thread alone you have virtually avoided every single question put to you, not even attempted to answer them, yet this is the nonsense you resort to when you don't like what you hear.
Like i said you deny the scriptures that are there that God is not only able of accomplishing his desire but does accomplish it, add to it that which is not there by associating our salvation with eternal hell and you want to hear spiritual truth that is not necessarily in the bible?. how are you ever going to be open to that when you've already got your mind made up.
Here are some spiritual truths that are in the bible that you cannot see and some that are not that you cannot see
Jesus Christ not the bible is the word of God
We are all part of the one God
God is in all things( including those deemed by evangelicals to be sinners)
The holy of holies is within man
Imagination creates reality
Thoughts are things
It is impossible to be separated from God
God can be touched and felt
Theres a few for starters to make you gnash your teeth.
Now how about answering at least one of the many questions of trettep's you have avoided answering.
I would also like a straight answer from you on the question i have asked you 3 times, does your conscience bear witness that those who do not accept what you believe is the only means of salvation deserve to be eternally tormented ?.
Everyone desires it, but urs actually promise it, although Jesus did not.
Finn, if anyone cannot hear what the Spirit says, then that also is of God's choosing. God is the one who opens and closes doors, and spiritual ears and eyes. Man cannot do this - it is God who does it.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.
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Romans 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.
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Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known.
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John 8:47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”
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Isaiah 30:21 And your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, “This is the way, walk in it,” when you turn to the right or when you turn to the left.
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Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
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John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
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John 14:16-17 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
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John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
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Romans 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
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John 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
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John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.
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Romans 12:1-2 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.
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Galatians 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
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Galatians 3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
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John 10:16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.
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Hebrews 1:1-5 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son, today I have begotten you”? Or again, “I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son”?
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Proverbs 3:30-32 Do not contend with a man for no reason, when he has done you no harm. Do not envy a man of violence and do not choose any of his ways, for the devious person is an abomination to the Lord, but the upright are in his confidence.
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1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
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John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the lamp of the Lord, searching all his innermost parts.
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Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
God is speaking to us by the Life within us, i know this is a hard concept for you, because you do not understand that Christ is alive in you, your reliance is upon the bible that is interpreted in scores of different ways. The truth is you are not accepting of the things that are there and are accepting of things that are not there which depict God like a devil, so how on earth could you ever be accepting of something that is a spiritual truth that is not there.
Tell me where did the wisdom of Solomon come from ?, God or the bible ?. Tell me how did Abraham Isaac and Know what they knew about God without a bible?, tell me which bible David use to discover and describe God in so many ways and how he believed God saw him?. Which bible did Zephaniah discover the Lord rejoices over us with singing ?.
I find it hard not to believe you worship the bible over the one it testifies of who speaks directly to the hearts of men without the aid of the bible in old testament times, how much more under the new testament days ?.
I think reading the whole chapter of 1 Corinthians 2 would be a good thing for you to do, hopefully you will see that the Spirit of God within us,is more than capable of speaking to us and leading us from within. Also notice the lack of the bible being mentioned.
Well said, pCamps. But millions, millions upon millions are also following and bowing down to the BOOK. And they go around condemning their brothers who will not agree with them on the ET doctrine and breathe out threats of ET for not believing ET ! It's like old King Neb who demanded that the three Hebrew Children bow down to him or he would throw them alive into the fire and yet, they were not afraid of his threats because they had the living God with them. Millions of Christians will go to their graves with a veil of darkness over their hearts. And perhaps that's part of God's plan. Perhaps God will not allow those we contend with to see the true light of God's love. Maybe they only get to see in part.
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