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Pcamps, realizing where we came from does not mean that we are "focused" on our sins. The title of this thread is about God hating sinners and this is why the conversation is focused on this, what does it mean-God "hating" sinners. God bless and peace.
What are you trying to say Shana, that i am off topic because i disagreed with your assumption or understanding that God hates and opposes sin and even in the sinner in the way you described in post #240.I wholeheartedly disagree with this and have supported it with scripture. That God does not destroy the sin he hates by opposing it and exposing it, but by causing us to look to things above.......in other words to be spiritually minded.
.sparrow, if we yield to things like pride, envy, selfishness, greed, hatred and so on and walk like this, it destroys us, doesn't it, in this life? We are not walking in love and this affects others and ourselves. We are dead, walking in death, without the light of Christ in us and so I believe that God is working within us to change this. The hate, meaning, opposition, as He is teaching us how to turn away from the sinful flesh. Learning how to walk in this life, in the light of the Lord, to me, means a recognition of those things which can so "easily entangle" us also because no one has arrived. We are instructed to run with endurance, for example, the race that is set before us. (Hebrews 12) There are times when we will fall, we are going to fall down at times, but we get back up and keep focused on the Lord. As Paul teaches " Not that I have already obtained it, or have already become perfect, but I press on, in order that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. (Hebrews 3)
Quote:
But that which destroys us isn't actually destroying us, that which so-called
"destroys us" is the thing that is BEING destroyed. The non-love within us all
is being overcome by LOVE. The non-love is slowly being destroyed and all of the
negative things that it causes (EVERYTHING... war, envy, pride, callousness,
arrogance, fear, greed, etc.) is becoming OBSOLETE. So why waste time or energy
"hating" something that is already on the path to destruction.
Whys is the non love then, being destroyed in us, by God's love? Isn't it because God is opposed to the non love that is in us? He is destroying that which destroys us, why? I believe that God is working within us to destroy the non love within us. This shows us that He is opposed to it because He would not be in the process of destroying this. Remember, "hate" can refer to simple opposition.God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-26-2014 at 01:53 PM..
God does NOT hate. Playing semantic games while continuing to use a word to describe God that clearly and unambiguously represents the worst of human weaknesses is to refuse to learn the difference between us and God. No good can come from such deception and misuse of words.
What are you trying to say Shana, that i am off topic because i disagreed
with your assumption or understanding that God hates and opposes sin and even in
the sinner in the way you described in post #240.I wholeheartedly disagree with
this and have supported it with scripture. That God does not destroy the sin he
hates by opposing it and exposing it, but by causing us to look to things
above.......in other words to be spiritually minded.
No, Pcamps, I am sharing why I posted on God being opposed to sin, in light of the topic of this discussion. There are many references in the scriptures, to sin, and I just shared that this means that God is opposed to sin and sinners in this respect. If He is not opposed to sin, then He would not cause us to look at things above, things that are spiritually minded. He would then have us to remain in a spiritually death state or condition. We are instructed to "put to death" the deeds of the body (Romans 8)and that our old self was crucified with Christ (Romans 6) God bless and peace.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-26-2014 at 02:09 PM..
.sparrow, if we yield to things like pride, envy, selfishness, greed, hatred and so on and walk like this, it destroys us, doesn't it, in this life?
No, IT is the thing that is being destroyed (the non-love which leads to the things you mentioned: envy, selfishness, greed, hatred). The sooner we realize that, the better off we will all be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown
.
Whys is the non love then, being destroyed in us, by God's love? Isn't it because God is opposed to the non love that is in us? He is destroying that which destroys us, why? I believe that God is working within us to destroy the non love within us. This shows us that He is opposed to it because He would not be in the process of destroying this. Remember, "hate" can refer to simple opposition.God bless and peace.
Hi Shana, No, I just don't see it the way that you see it. I don't believe God hates. At ALL.
As far as "hate can mean this" and "hate can mean that"... I guess I just kind of don't understand the point of trying to justify "God hates".? Do you know what I mean? We're talking about "hate". Not "simple opposition".
God is LOVE.
Love does NOT hate.
in any way, shape or manner.
When someone says that Love DOES hate, I believe that they are not understanding it's full, complete and total power.
The non-love is being destroyed within us because it is the natural progression of things... as our knowledge of the Creator increases, the ignorance (non-love) within decreases... until it is destroyed altogether.
God does NOT hate. Playing semantic games while continuing to use a word to describe God that clearly and unambiguously represents the worst of human weaknesses is to refuse to learn the difference between us and God. No good can come from such deception and misuse of words.
Hi Shana, No, I just don't see it the way that you see it. I don't believe
God hates. At ALL.
As far as "hate can mean this" and "hate can mean
that"... I guess I just kind of don't understand the point of trying to justify
"God hates".? Do you know what I mean? We're talking about "hate". Not "simple
opposition".
God is LOVE.
Love does NOT hate.
in any way, shape
or manner.
When someone says that Love DOES hate, I believe that they
are not understanding it's full, complete and total power.
The
non-love is being destroyed within us because it is the natural progression of
things... as our knowledge of the Creator increases, the ignorance (non-love)
within decreases... until it is destroyed altogether.
.sparrow, I shared this because this is how it is used in the scriptures, it does not necessarily mean what we think it means because we are viewing it from our own language , culture, and experience. It can mean simple opposition according to the Hebrew language, that the OT was written in.
Maybe this is why so many are confused by statements like "God hates sinners." This may be the way that they understand the teaching in the scriptures, when in fact, this is not what is being taught. I believe that we are taught that God in sending His Son Jesus, sent him because of our sins. He died because we were lost in sin and He is in the process of healing and restoring, opposed to that which destroys us, and keeps us in a lost condition. I say this because I understand that God works all things according to the counsel of His own will, so this tells me that He is actively engaged in this process. (Ephesians 1) Jesus came to seek that which was lost. He does not want us to remain lost. and He has not designed it so that we will remain lost. I believe that God is the one who arranged the natural process of things. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Thanks and God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-26-2014 at 02:35 PM..
No, Pcamps, I am sharing why I posted on God being opposed to sin, in light of the topic of this discussion. There are many references in the scriptures, to sin, and I just shared that this means that God is opposed to sin and sinners in this respect. If He is not opposed to sin, then He would not cause us to look at things above, things that are spiritually minded. He would then have us to remain in a spiritually death state or condition. We are instructed to "put to death" the deeds of the body (Romans 8)and that our old self was crucified with Christ (Romans 6) God bless and peace.
Yes there are many references to sin and there are many references to why we sin, which is what we all want to know so we do not keep missing the mark, and those references clearly point to the cause of us missing the mark is what we give our attention to. Now if you believe God hates sin, opposes sin (and even hates the sinner) you from the get go are giving your attention to that which is the cause of sin.
You try hitting the bulls eye when your instructor is just as concerned about you missing the mark as hitting it, your attention is drawn to your instructors double mindedness and you will miss the target(fall short of the glory) never mind the bulls eye without fail every time, especially when there are consequences meted out from the instructor for missing the bulls eye. The good instructor keeps you focused only on the bulls eye.(seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness) The God that hates and loves is the double minded instructor.
Why is there even a bullseye, Pcamps? Doesn't the instructor show you at times, what you might be doing wrong, so that you can improve as a shooter? We can learn from our mistakes also, not that we are focused on them. I may be teaching a child how to have correct handwriting by showing him what the goal is. Then as I observe, I may notice that he or she may be holding the pencil incorrectly or starting at the wrong line, so I may show him this, contrast it with the correct way to hold the pencil, which line to start on. This is a part of teaching and does not mean that we are focused on only on the mistakes. Do you think that the instructor will be elated and happy if you keep missing the bullseye? Is that the goal? Why even come to the instructor? God bless and peace.
Why is there even a bullseye, Pcamps? Doesn't the instructor show you at times, what you might be doing wrong, so that you can improve as a shooter? We can learn from our mistakes also, not that we are focused on them. I may be teaching a child how to have correct handwriting by showing him what the goal is. Then as I observe, I may notice that he or she may be holding the pencil incorrectly or starting at the wrong line, so I may show him this, contrast it with the correct way to hold the pencil, which line to start on. This is a part of teaching and does not mean that we are focused on only on the mistakes. Do you think that the instructor will be elated and happy if you keep missing the bullseye? Is that the goal? Why even come to the instructor? God bless and peace.
Your analogy is poor Shana, you don't hate upon a child for poor handwriting nor do you oppose the child's poor handwriting . The general belief about God, is if you miss the mark(your hand writing is poor) he is angry and hates.
Last edited by pcamps; 07-26-2014 at 03:08 PM..
Reason: Poor grammar :-)
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Then there's the truth .... God DOES hate
