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Pleroo, I only said that your answer was what I expected it to be. I have apparently done a poor job of explaining that I know that God does indeed love you, me, us. Otherwise there would have been no need for the cross. Correct, God is not holding my sin against me, IF I continue in the Gospel that I received (back to Colossians 1). Where we differ in opinion is that I believe it to be reality, not in my mind. We reap what we sow, correct? So therefore if we consciously continue in sin, how do we reap paradise at the end of the age?
Putting on Christ is not a once and done deal. Salvation is, but sanctification takes a lifetime of renewing one's mind and becoming that living sacrifice. And when we stand in judgment, the righteousness of Christ is what is seen. If one rejects Christ, then that sin is most definitely held against them.Somebody's got to pay for the transgression. God could not be love he was not just. Somebody pays, either Christ paid or we pay.
In other words,
Saying “I love you but…”
Saying things like “If you don’t _____, I will_____.”
Christian. I attend a Southern Baptist Church.
Other labels that may also apply to me:
Reformed/Calvinist-- though very new and still studying.
Amilleniallist since 2013
Sinner saved by grace
and don't forget mean ol fundie.. or is it fundy???
I was Southern Baptist for decades until they left their original calling of bringing people to Christ. Jerry Falwell hijacked the SBC and turned the denomination into a moralizing, condemning organization. I was there when they first began condemning homosexuals. I was there when they took over control of finances of the Lottie Moon offering from the Women's Missionary Union which had never had a hint of scandal. They said it needed an "oversight" committee---that committee is composed primarily of men. I was there when they began purging the seminaries of all professors who refused to sign statements requiring them to believe certain principles about the Bible which the Bible doesn't express. I was there when my former pastor turned African missionary (for nineteen years) was told he wouldn't be returned to the Zambia (he was on sabbatical) he loved unless he, too, signed a pledge about his biblical beliefs (and he IS a fundamentalist--but opposed to church mandated rules). All his household goods were in storage and the fine Christians of the SBC told him it was at his expense to return them to the U.S. (He lost everything).
So be as self righteous as you wish about the SBC. I know there are fine people still in the SBC being duped by its "Christian" leadership, but for me I was sickened enough to leave and have never been part of any formal church organization since.
“When you think God is on your side, anything can be rationalized, including fear-mongering propaganda. One of my pet peeves that drives me berserk is that the church loves to threaten disaster if you don’t pursue their agenda”
Excerpt From: Camp, Michael. “Confessions of a Bible Thumper.” Cedar Forge Press. iBooks.
Jesus came saving individuals and never ever voicing support for formalized religion. People are caught up in it because humans are social animals afraid to learn the real meaning of Scripture for themselves. Adherents to the religion of denominations never find freedom in Jesus Christ. They live under the pressure of the denomination to conform to the denomination' view as expressed by the pastor? Want to find out for yourself? Tell your Sunday School class that the doctrine of the Trinity is not clear in the Bible (it isn't and I'm a Trinatarian) and you don't think it should be a litmus test for being "saved." The pressure you will be under will be tremendous. No one is free to believe what they wish about the Bible. But that is not the history of the SBC.
For me and my house we choose to worship God in freedom.
and let me save Trout Dude the trouble: 2 Peter 1:16-21
If you can't bother to write out the verse, I don't think I can be bothered to look it up.
But, let me guess... there's a verse in the bible that you understand to back up the idea that , "God loves you, but..." or "God says if you don't [believe this or do that], I will [damn you to eternal torment]. And since you can interpret it to mean that -- since the BIBLE says it -- it doesn't matter that it's psychologically abusive. Believe it OR ELSE.
Pleroo, I only said that your answer was what I expected it to be. I have apparently done a poor job of explaining that I know that God does indeed love you, me, us. Otherwise there would have been no need for the cross. Correct, God is not holding my sin against me, IF I continue in the Gospel that I received (back to Colossians 1). Where we differ in opinion is that I believe it to be reality, not in my mind. We reap what we sow, correct? So therefore if we consciously continue in sin, how do we reap paradise at the end of the age?
Putting on Christ is not a once and done deal. Salvation is, but sanctification takes a lifetime of renewing one's mind and becoming that living sacrifice. And when we stand in judgment, the righteousness of Christ is what is seen. If one rejects Christ, then that sin is most definitely held against them. Somebody's got to pay for the transgression. God could not be love he was not just. Somebody pays, either Christ paid or we pay.
There is no way you can be experiencing life and peace by such a belief. Yes we reap what we sow. Did you know if you sow into the spirit from the spirit you reap and if you sow into the flesh from the flesh(NOT GOD) you reap.
because he who is sowing to his own flesh, OF THE FLESH shall reap corruption; and he who is sowing to the Spirit, of the Spirit shall reap life age-during Galatians 5:6
The secret is finding how to sow spiritually. Orthodox Christianity comes up empty with the answer to this, The Finn Jarbers,,Cyber Munchins, twin spins,vizios of this world think it is by making a lot of noise about the bible and how it is inerrant infallible and its gods truth, studying it until you are blue in the face, defending it with all your might all sounds super spiritual but it's carnal a form of Godliness that denies the power, the power being Christ no the bible.The bible is not the Spirit, God is Spirit and God is not the bible.
HE PAID IN FULL THE RANSOM THE DEVIL HAD EVERYONE OVER A BARREL WITH,THE SAME RANSOM EVANGELICALS HOLD THE WORLD IN....... YOU ARE GUILTY UNLESS YOU BELIEVE CHRIST PAID YOUR RANSOM.
I was Southern Baptist for decades until they left their original calling of bringing people to Christ. Jerry Falwell hijacked the SBC and turned the denomination into a moralizing, condemning organization. I was there when they first began condemning homosexuals. I was there when they took over control of finances of the Lottie Moon offering from the Women's Missionary Union which had never had a hint of scandal. They said it needed an "oversight" committee---that committee is composed primarily of men. I was there when they began purging the seminaries of all professors who refused to sign statements requiring them to believe certain principles about the Bible which the Bible doesn't express. I was there when my former pastor turned African missionary (for nineteen years) was told he wouldn't be returned to the Zambia (he was on sabbatical) he loved unless he, too, signed a pledge about his biblical beliefs (and he IS a fundamentalist--but opposed to church mandated rules). All his household goods were in storage and the fine Christians of the SBC told him it was at his expense to return them to the U.S. (He lost everything).
So be as self righteous as you wish about the SBC. I know there are fine people still in the SBC being duped by its "Christian" leadership, but for me I was sickened enough to leave and have never been part of any formal church organization since.
“When you think God is on your side, anything can be rationalized, including fear-mongering propaganda. One of my pet peeves that drives me berserk is that the church loves to threaten disaster if you don’t pursue their agenda”
Excerpt From: Camp, Michael. “Confessions of a Bible Thumper.” Cedar Forge Press. iBooks.
Jesus came saving individuals and never ever voicing support for formalized religion. People are caught up in it because humans are social animals afraid to learn the real meaning of Scripture for themselves. Adherents to the religion of denominations never find freedom in Jesus Christ. They live under the pressure of the denomination to conform to the denomination' view as expressed by the pastor? Want to find out for yourself? Tell your Sunday School class that the doctrine of the Trinity is not clear in the Bible (it isn't and I'm a Trinatarian) and you don't think it should be a litmus test for being "saved." The pressure you will be under will be tremendous. No one is free to believe what they wish about the Bible. But that is not the history of the SBC.
For me and my house we choose to worship God in freedom.
Some good stuff in there. That's why I answered as I did. Most SBC churches I have visited are just as you described....including the one I currently attend. I am anything but self righteous about the SBC, and often find myself at odds with the management. You'd have thought I blasphemed when I explained why I wouldn't take part in any fourth of July service or Veteran's Day service. But it's not enough to make me leave the church. There's a handful of us in there, and breaking friendships over theological differences of opinion doesn't excite me much. They like the Baptist Faith and Message 2000, and get a kick out of me breaking out my 1689 London Baptist Confession.
The IMB is another outfit I have concerns with, only because I live near some of its directors. I never thought 'mission work' paid so well...
So yeah, I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I only attend there. I grew up in a UMC, but never really got saved until 2011. That whole 'new creature' thing is scary awesome.
If you can't bother to write out the verse, I don't think I can be bothered to look it up.
But, let me guess... there's a verse in the bible that you understand to back up the idea that , "God loves you, but..." or "God says if you don't [believe this or do that], I will [damn you to eternal torment]. And since you can interpret it to mean that -- since the BIBLE says it -- it doesn't matter that it's psychologically abusive. Believe it OR ELSE.
Yes, you did. Why NOT print the cogent verse if it says what you want?
Your major failure that I can see is that you bought into the idea that punishment is ONLY for retribution and you did not consider how THAT can possibly be "love." If punishment is not to wake up to consequences and inspire change, what is it but barbaric revenge?
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
Note that it does not say "rather than on the Bible," which is one of those deceptions noted.
2 Pet 1
16For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, “This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased”— 18and we ourselves heard this utterance made from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
19So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. 20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
Once again, it speaks of Christ, not the Bible.
Let me give you a scripture: John 5:39"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.…
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