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Trout is closer to Jesus' teaching than you are. He hasn't relegated Jesus back into the OT which you and Saan have. And Trout sees fundamentalists as Jesus saw them--- as vipers.
Jesus came to free us from the very bonds you seek to keep around people, exactly as the Pharisees did to enslave people to the written word.
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Originally Posted by SAAN
Your biblical ignorance has been noted. The bible is ONE COMPLETE BOOK not 2 separate ones and there is not a OT God & NT God, he is the same God. Jesus came to uphold the law of God not abolish them. The reason he didnt speak on homosexuality is because they all knew it was an abomination and a sin, so it was obvious to them back then as STOP at a stop sign is obvious to us now. Jesus is technically a Fundamentalist according to you because he obeyed the words of God and taught others to do so as well.
Jesus came to show how the law was to be lived, NOT on how to break the commands of God and justify the vile and disgusting LGBT lifestyle.
SAAN? Hello? Wake up! You're having a bad dream. You've just dreamed that Warden is biblically ignorant.
As with Jeff, you choose to make jesus into your own image. That was the point of my statement. You love bigotry more than you love God. You are more focused on your image of what is evil in in the world than you are focused on Who came to rescue us. You would be the one telling the Good Samaritan to get away from you as you lie injured in a ditch. You have to have a savior fitting your image---therefore you've not really, deeply discovered how lost you truly are. I suspected it, but this cinched it.
A Savior is One Who sets you free. But you would rather bind Jesus into your own image so He cannot be your Lord----instead you are His lord.
Look into a mirror. Only when you can see yourself as less righteous than anyone else--including all those homosexuals you put in hell--will your heart be ready for any Savior who can truly be your Lord.
Expecting you to reject the call for self-reflection, I still wish you the very best should you desire to start the journey. It isn't pleasant.
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC
Something's wrong with you...
You suggest Jesus is gay, and then accuse me, Jeff, etc. of making Jesus into our own image - which is the very thing you did.
Both laughable and sad...
And of course wash it down with some name calling and accusations - which is predictable.
DRob, you're not listening. The devil is placing fingers in your ears. Fight him! Hear what Warden is saying. Do you not see the wisdom in his words?
500+ posts and still no answer to why it is NOT OK to be Gay What societal harm does it inflict on us? How does SSM harm society? What harm does it inflict on the individuals who are Gay? What harm does associating with Gays inflict on anyone? What harm does serving Gays inflict on businesses or their employees? Again why is it NOT OK to be Gay?????.
Im the Pharisee??? You are the one promoting the tradition of man ...Homosexuality, not me. Jesus would have rebuked you. Im promoting living a biblical lifestyle.
Difference bwtn OT & NT
OT: Blood of animals covers your sins
NT: Blood of Jesus covers your sins
There was no such thing as a NT when Jesus or Paul walked the earth, so they taught from the same OT that you see as wicked and if you have actually read a bible, you will see all the laws in the NT are pulled right from the OT, thats why I repeat, the bible is one complete book of different covenants, not 2 separte books.
The OT is not all wicked. It takes a fundamentalist to find the ugly words and try to live them. And all of you are selectively literal anyway. Some of the holiness code is wonderful, but I doubt you stone children for cursing their parents. SELECTIVE LITERALISM!!!
Do you teach that Christian men should not have sex with menstruating women? No? SELECTIVE LITERALISM.
SAAN, you no more believe ALL the bible than I do ar anyone else. What you CHHOSE to believe fits in with your biases and judgmental attitudes. Period.
P.S. Glad to know you will no longer be a fundamentalist that tries to say 2nd Timothy 3:16 has anything to do with NT writings--because as you stated in a different post---Paul and the other writers had no NT to be writing about. Yet no matter how often we godless liberals point it out, most obstinate fundamentalists continue saying "yes it does--prophetically."
Last edited by Wardendresden; 05-26-2016 at 11:11 PM..
Seriously, right? Staggers the imagination the hoops they keep trying to conjure up to avoid the obvious, doesn't it? Peace
I guess that I'm among the "they" you mention. From the outset I've attempted to promote the "KISS" principle - "Keep It Simple Stupid" - when approaching this topic from a Bible perspective ...no jumping through hoops, no lies, no subterfuge, no red herrings, no downright fabrications, no (um) rhetoric except, perhaps, for right now ...
My claim from the outset has been and STILL is that there is no need to 'twist' the Bible in order to arrive at the conclusion that the Bible authors DID NOT condemn something that they had no word for, nor would they have had any inkling of, the variables surrounding human sexuality. They DID address male/male sex in relation to idol worship but never to describe homosexuality in the way we today define and understand the term. While homosexuality probably existed back then as it does now (why not since it's a part of being human?), the Bible authors did not address this. They don't address heterosexuality either. What they DO address is the topic of "God worship" and it's this that pretty much sets the theme for the entire Bible.
Entire cities and their populations were destroyed because they did not worship God! God desires worship ...or else! To His credit (??) He does admit to being a 'jealous God' and warns everyone in advance (through His prophets) to either worship Him or suffer the consequences. In the Old Testament the consequences (as mentioned) resulted in the literal destruction of nations. In the New Testament God's judgment for those who don't worship Him (according to mainstream Christianity) is eternal torment in hell.
Get the message? The Bible is pretty much all about "God worship"!
However, human beings, being human beings (as created such BY God), have a habit of doing things in their own way. God evidently made the mistake of giving some of His creations reasoning skills and the ability to work things out for themselves. But, this trait is seen as 'sinful' by many Christians. Human beings are not allowed to go their own way, to make decisions based on reason alone. They must, rather, trust in the God of the Bible. Remember, God is a jealous God and He won't stand for rebellion!
Anyway, the ancients had this need to worship 'something' just as most of us do today. These days we make idols out of many things and many people. So did the ancients. They, however, didn't have sports or movie or music or TV personalities to fawn over and exalt (worship) as we do. And so, they created their own gods. Each god had their own role to play in maintaining peace and harmony in the land. Some gods and goddesses took part in creation, some brought floods every year, some offered protection (how many today wear a St. Christopher medallion around their necks?) and some took care of people after they died. Others were either local gods who represented towns, or minor gods who represented animals and plants. It was believe very important to recognize and worship these gods and goddesses so that life continued smoothly.
Child sacrifice and also sexual rituals (male/female, male/male and female/female) were also practiced as part of idol worship. Whether they were heterosexual or homosexual is irrelevant. The former - as in the case of the 'fire god', Molech - to appease the gods by sacrificing something precious, and the latter, through temple prostitution, as a means to increase fertility. Most of us in this day and age cannot begin to understand the minds of the ancients ...although many people still persist in some form of idolatry with regard to superstitions, the wearing of religious trinkets, praying in 'unknown tongues' to a deity, holding up a book and believing it to BE God, etc. etc.
These gods and the worship practices affiliated with these idols made to resemble humans, animals, birds and reptiles are spoken of, though rather ambiguously, in the Bible, both in the Old as well as the New Testaments. There is no mention of any form of homosexual activity mentioned in the Bible OTHER THAN within the context of idolatry and sacred temple prostitution. See, it's all to do with the worship of false gods rather than the worship of a 'jealous' God who really, REALLY takes exception to this and meters out some serious judgment for those who don't toe the line! No jumping through hoops. No twisting of scripture. Just the biblical facts when read in context and also read with an understanding of the ancient cultures that are being referenced in scripture. Whoever is applying or attempting to apply 'ancient with modern' is deluded . . .
The reason he didn't speak on homosexuality is because they all knew it was an abomination and a sin, ...
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
But, but ..."they" all knew back then that adultery was a sin punishable by death but that didn't stop Jesus talking about adultery, did it? What do you have to say about that?
The bible is contradictory on the topic. As mentioned many times, there is the case of David and Jonathan who clearly were in love, but then you will find a passage commanding the stoning of two men who have slept together.
Written by different people the bible was bound to have contradictions.
500+ posts and still no answer to why it is NOT OK to be Gay What societal harm does it inflict on us? How does SSM harm society? What harm does it inflict on the individuals who are Gay? What harm does associating with Gays inflict on anyone? What harm does serving Gays inflict on businesses or their employees? Again why is it NOT OK to be Gay?????.
Really, the "no harm" argument again? It's pointless because you will stubbornly refuse to accept anything even remotely negatively about gays. I have posted countless times how the gay lifestyle has lead to the spread of HIV and STDS and people like you completely REFUSE to acknowledge that fact. That is a problem that burdens the healthcare system which utlimately affects everyone.
SSM has certainly brought harm to innocent Christian business owners who simply do not want to compromise their beliefs.
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It is well established that there are high rates of psychiatric illnesses, including depression, drug abuse, and suicide attempts, among gays and lesbians. This is true even in the Netherlands, where gay, lesbian and bisexual (GLB) relationships are far more socially acceptable than in the U.S. Depression and drug abuse are strongly associated with risky sexual practices that lead to serious medical problems.
You have not created a better society. You've created an open doorway for Satan to destroy America from within. The next generation of young people are going to see a huge increase in the number of people who choose to experiment with homosexuality which will lead to more disease, mental illness and falling away from God. My niece is in college and I was flooded when she told me almost every girl on her softball team is a lesbian. That would have been unheard of just 10 years ago.
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