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No, he blamed Christian missionaries (by saying they had a part to play) for religious persecution/atrocities and when asked how, he deflected by talking about something else.
Question: How did Christian missionaries have a part to play in the murder of people in Africa?
If you are stating that these people were killed BECAUSE they were Christians (which flies in the face of what at least one African intelligence agency says), then how did Christian missionaries NOT play a part in their murder?
Quote:
But attributing the attacks solely to religious persecution “is a misunderstanding of the actual problem,” says Cheta Nwanze, head researcher at SBM Intel, a Lagos-based intelligence firm that has analyzed conflict in northern Nigeria over the past three years.
No missionaries, then no Christians, then no "massacres," if you are claiming they died because they were Christians.
I think parts of Africa are so messed up that no reason whatsoever is necessary to begin a massacre of anyone regardless of their religion.
I once worked as a volunteer in a children's after school program that primarily served displaced citizens of Myanmar. Those kids told me they and there family were forced to flee to avoid massacre BECAUSE THEY SPOKE A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE!!
If you are stating that these people were killed BECAUSE they were Christians (which flies in the face of what at least one African intelligence agency says), then how did Christian missionaries NOT play a part in their murder?
Quote:
No missionaries, then no Christians, then no "massacres," if you are claiming they died because they were Christians.
If you had read and understood my comments on this thread you would not have to ask.
The only reason I participated in the thread was to point out that 5 million people have perished in the African conflict, and no one gives a rip until 130 of the victims turned out to be Christians, at which point Breitbart turns it into "Christian persecution" story. Of course the usual suspects here will try to make it sound like the Christians/missionaies are somehow to be blamed.
Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 04-06-2019 at 01:36 PM..
If you had read and understood my comments on this thread you would not have to ask.
The only reason I participated in the thread was to point out that 5 million people have perished in the African conflict, and no one gives a rip until 130 of the victims turned out to be Christians, at which point Breitbart turns it into "Christian persecution" story. Of course the usual suspects here will try to make it sound like the Christians/missionaies are somehow to be blamed.
I DID read your comment and made my reply based on “IF you are trying to say these people were killed because they are Christian. I wasn’t certain because you are rarely clear.
And my point was and is—if no one converted those Africans to Christianity they wouldn’t have been massacred for BEING christians (I don’t think they were by the way). I don’t see it as moral or immoral to convert Africans, I see that if people are killed for being christians then perhaps missionaries should have been warning them of the possibility. That’s simply a fact about the former and a suggestion for Christian missionaries in foreign countries to be more aware of the cultural differences that might cause conflict to arise and tell people about it.
Would be best if different religions could live together peacefully. We do here, but Muslims cannot convert or they will be killed. Killing Christians won't take care if that is the problem. Many Muslims are converting anyway.
Would be best if different religions could live together peacefully. We do here, but Muslims cannot convert or they will be killed. Killing Christians won't take care if that is the problem. Many Muslims are converting anyway.
But why are they converting? Sorry, it just makes no sense to me. To set these people free they cannot just be conned into a different religion. You get my bewilderment?
I DID read your comment and made my reply based on “IF you are trying to say these people were killed because they are Christian. I wasn’t certain because you are rarely clear.
And my point was and is—if no one converted those Africans to Christianity they wouldn’t have been massacred for BEING christians (I don’t think they were by the way). I don’t see it as moral or immoral to convert Africans, I see that if people are killed for being christians then perhaps missionaries should have been warning them of the possibility. That’s simply a fact about the former and a suggestion for Christian missionaries in foreign countries to be more aware of the cultural differences that might cause conflict to arise and tell people about it.
I do see it as being immoral to convert these people or any other people to Christianity or any other religion. Others may and likely do disagree with me. I do see the appeal of converting others to one's own beliefs or viewpoints though. But it's wrong!
Having said that, my great uncle who was missionary in Africa (who was known by the locals as 'Lion of the Great Forest' is credited as as having stopped a faction fight by coming between the two warring parties and saying to them "Am I to stand here and watch as my brothers kill each other" (in their language of course). They left and went home without a fight. So there is that to it. Actually, having known my missionary uncle in Africa, I can say he was a great guy and a great orator (both my uncles were great orators). He probably brought more peace to his congregation than harm. My great uncle was probably the same. Nils Astrup was his name. Bishop Nils Astrup. There's even a picture of him on the internet.
Quote:
Nills ASTRUP was born in Soloer Oslo Norway on 30 August 1843. He was the son of Judge Nicolia ASTRUP and his wife Anne Johanne DOEDERLEIN. He studied law at the University of Christiania Oslo where he graduated with honours. He assisted his father for a short while between 1866 - 1869 and then returned to study theology at his old university, passing with honours in 1877. After a few years worked in the parish of Norddalen. He decided to become a missionary and came to South Africa to succeed bishop HPS Schreuder as head of the Church of Norway Zulu Mission in 1882. One of the first missionaries to settle permanently in Zululand, He was known as the Lion of the great Forest, "Untunjambile". He acted as adviser to both the Zulu Royal House and the British Government in Zululand.
Yup - that's my pedigree. I bet these guys are all turning in their graves!
I do see it as being immoral to convert these people or any other people to Christianity or any other religion. Others may and likely do disagree with me. I do see the appeal of converting others to one's own beliefs or viewpoints though. But it's wrong!
Having said that, my great uncle who was missionary in Africa (who was known by the locals as 'Lion of the Great Forest' is credited as as having stopped a faction fight by coming between the two warring parties and saying to them "Am I to stand here and watch as my brothers kill each other" (in their language of course). They left and went home without a fight. So there is that to it. Actually, having known my missionary uncle in Africa, I can say he was a great guy and a great orator (both my uncles were great orators). He probably brought more peace to his congregation than harm. My great uncle was probably the same. Nils Astrup was his name. Bishop Nils Astrup. There's even a picture of him on the internet.
Yup - that's my pedigree. I bet these guys are all turning in their graves!
Okay Yet the example of your uncle seems to provide "evidence" that some good was able to rise out of his work among them. If so, I would say that was a good, moral thing. Other missionaries go to Africa and teach them to hate gays. I would say that is immoral. For me it's not about whether they go, it's what they say.
I'm thinking you may be agnostic or atheist? If so, then you, too, have an agenda with NOT wanting religion to spread.
But why are they converting? Sorry, it just makes no sense to me. To set these people free they cannot just be conned into a different religion. You get my bewilderment?
Okay Yet the example of your uncle seems to provide "evidence" that some good was able to rise out of his work among them. If so, I would say that was a good, moral thing. Other missionaries go to Africa and teach them to hate gays. I would say that is immoral. For me it's not about whether they go, it's what they say.
I'm thinking you may be agnostic or atheist? If so, then you, too, have an agenda with NOT wanting religion to spread.
Just sayin'-----
Yeah, kinda. But then I see what appears to be a whole lot of good by some of these people at least. I don't view religion that imposes on others as being beneficial. I am Ok with 'personal' religion. It's when one's 'personal' god becomes the creator of all things and the only path to salvation and all that *** that I start to have issues. Making a man into a god doesn't rub with me very well and making up contorted n onesence like the three in one etc, the son being born in 4BC or 6AD (take your pick) then a few centuries later becomes the infinite father of himself and existed forever as the creator, gets to be a bit much.
I'm atheist by the way. That doesn't mean I reject the egregor effect or the possibility of there being something beyond our physical perceptions. After all, what exactly is life?
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