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[It] is dealing with the qualityof that life, nothing about an eternity of life or punishment. No doubt you will spend some time in the Lake of fire to remove the false doctrine that you hold dear to your mind and heart before joining everyone else throughout the ages to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
That would be a wonderful way for God to prove to me that the lake of fire doesn't exist.
<sarcasm>
I don't mind sarcasm, it's ignorance that is disturbing. You still have not addressed why the Lake (of fire) is a place of safety, a refuge or haven, according to the Greek language, not the false interpretation of hellfire and damnation that you believe.
I don't mind sarcasm, it's ignorance that is disturbing. You still have not addressed why the Lake (of fire) is a place of safety, a refuge or haven, according to the Greek language, not the false interpretation of hellfire and damnation that you believe.
If it is a place of safety, why is there "wailing and gnashing of teeth" therein?
I will say again that 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv) gives us a biblical hermeneutic that we are to follow.
So, when we compare spiritual things with spiritual, and combine Matthew 13:41-42 and Matthew 13:49-50 with Matthew 25:46, we find that there is an everlasting punishment coming for the sinner that is defined by "wailing and gnashing of teeth"
I don't mind sarcasm, it's ignorance that is disturbing. You still have not addressed why the Lake (of fire) is a place of safety, a refuge or haven, according to the Greek language, not the false interpretation of hellfire and damnation that you believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
If it is a place of safety, why is there "wailing and gnashing of teeth" therein?
I will say again that 1 Corinthians 2:13 (kjv) gives us a biblical hermeneutic that we are to follow.
So, when we compare spiritual things with spiritual, and combine Matthew 13:41-42 and Matthew 13:49-50 with Matthew 25:46, we find that there is an everlasting punishment coming for the sinner that is defined by "wailing and gnashing of teeth"
I have no doubt that you will experience the psychological anguish of wailing and gnashing your teeth, while in the safety and presence of Christ Jesus as he removes that false ideology that you hold dear to your mind and heart. Especially, when you realize the errors of your thoughts, deeds, and actions as you have attempted to lead many astray in your ignorance or lack of knowledge. And you have absolutely no spiritual discernment, nor wisdom for that matter.
I have no doubt that you will experience the psychological anguish of wailing and gnashing your teeth, while in the safety and presence of Christ Jesus as he removes that false ideology that you hold dear to your mind and heart. Especially, when you realize the errors of your thoughts, deeds, and actions as you have attempted to lead many astray in your ignorance or lack of knowledge. And you have absolutely no spiritual discernment, nor wisdom for that matter.
The kind of regret and remorse that is the most devastating is the unintended irreversible harm to those we should love. It usually results from our obliviousness to the harmful effect of our actions. When we learn what we caused and cannot ever undo or repair, the anguish can be unbearable.
I have no doubt that you will experience the psychological anguish of wailing and gnashing your teeth, while in the safety and presence of Christ Jesus as he removes that false ideology that you hold dear to your mind and heart. Especially, when you realize the errors of your thoughts, deeds, and actions as you have attempted to lead many astray in your ignorance or lack of knowledge. And you have absolutely no spiritual discernment, nor wisdom for that matter.
If Jesus Himself tells me that He really meant "age-abiding" torments in Matthew 25:46, then I will believe Him immediately and will not have to experience any psychological anguish.
However, I don't think that He meant that; because IF He meant that, then in John 3:16, He meant to promise mere "age-abiding" life; and that would seem to me to be life that ends when the age ends.
Since we are currently in the age of grace; which will end when the Great Tribulation starts; I think that by that time, if you are correct, my "age-abiding" life will have ended; therefore I will be dead as concerning everlasting life.
So, at that point, I will either cease to have consciousness or else my consciousness will continue in a form that is not defined by life.
What might my consciousness experience if it is not experiencing life?
I think that it would have to be the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" that is spoken of by Jesus Christ;
And therefore, there is condemnation for all those who have "age-abiding" life; since when that life ends, they will experience "wailing and gnashing of teeth". And how long will that experience last? To the end of the next age? Will there then be an age of bliss that will also end; since there is also mere age-abiding life in that age? And what comes after? Another age of "wailing and gnashing of teeth".
So, it appears that the ultimate conclusion of your theology is that we will go from age to age, from bliss to torment to bliss to torment to bliss to torment, ad infinitum.
If Jesus Himself tells me that He really meant "age-abiding" torments in Matthew 25:46, then I will believe Him immediately and will not have to experience any psychological anguish.
However, I don't think that He meant that; because IF He meant that, then in John 3:16, He meant to promise mere "age-abiding" life; and that would seem to me to be life that ends when the age ends.
Since we are currently in the age of grace; which will end when the Great Tribulation starts; I think that by that time, if you are correct, my "age-abiding" life will have ended; therefore I will be dead as concerning everlasting life.
So, at that point, I will either cease to have consciousness or else my consciousness will continue in a form that is not defined by life.
What might my consciousness experience if it is not experiencing life?
I think that it would have to be the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" that is spoken of by Jesus Christ;
And therefore, there is condemnation for all those who have "age-abiding" life; since when that life ends, they will experience "wailing and gnashing of teeth". And how long will that experience last? To the end of the next age? Will there then be an age of bliss that will also end; since there is also mere age-abiding life in that age? And what comes after? Another age of "wailing and gnashing of teeth".
So, it appears that the ultimate conclusion of your theology is that we will go from age to age, from bliss to torment to bliss to torment to bliss to torment, ad infinitum.
This is your good news?
I believe you are looking at it from the wrong perspective
There is no swinging back and forth, there are many earthly “ages” which have days, times, seasons
And only one “world to come” that all prophets and apostles have looked forward and witnessed to, in their particular/own generations
Heb 6:1**Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2**Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3**And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:4**For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
Heb 6:5**And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
Heb 6:6**If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Heb 6:7**For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
Rom 1:19**Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20**For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21**Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22**Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23**And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24**Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25**Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
If Jesus Himself tells me that He really meant "age-abiding" torments in Matthew 25:46, then I will believe Him immediately and will not have to experience any psychological anguish.
However, I don't think that He meant that; because IF He meant that, then in John 3:16, He meant to promise mere "age-abiding" life; and that would seem to me to be life that ends when the age ends.
Since we are currently in the age of grace; which will end when the Great Tribulation starts; I think that by that time, if you are correct, my "age-abiding" life will have ended; therefore I will be dead as concerning everlasting life.
So, at that point, I will either cease to have consciousness or else my consciousness will continue in a form that is not defined by life.
What might my consciousness experience if it is not experiencing life?
I think that it would have to be the "wailing and gnashing of teeth" that is spoken of by Jesus Christ;
And therefore, there is condemnation for all those who have "age-abiding" life; since when that life ends, they will experience "wailing and gnashing of teeth". And how long will that experience last? To the end of the next age? Will there then be an age of bliss that will also end; since there is also mere age-abiding life in that age? And what comes after? Another age of "wailing and gnashing of teeth".
So, it appears that the ultimate conclusion of your theology is that we will go from age to age, from bliss to torment to bliss to torment to bliss to torment, ad infinitum.
This is your good news?
This contorted and irrational speculation about things we have no possible way to know about just reveals how willing you are to contrive ANY excuse for retaining the ancient ignorance of our ancestors. What it is about God as a wrathful and vengeful WarGod who needs to be appeased by blood sacrifice and eternal torment that you are willing to ignore the very Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ to believe in it?????.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 07-11-2021 at 08:35 PM..
This contorted and irrational speculation about things we have no possible way to know about just reveals how willing you are to contrive ANY excuse for retaining the ancient ignorance of our ancestors. What it is about God as a wrathful and vengeful WarGod who needs to be appeased by blood sacrifice and eternal torment that you are willing to ignore the very Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ to believe in it?????.
The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ would tell you that "without the shedding of blood there is no remission" (Hebrews 9:22); and that therefore it is absolutely true that the God of the Bible requires a sacrifice.
Fortunately for me (if not for you), He has provided Himself as a sacrifice and His own blood was shed as a propitiation for our sins.
I have received what Jesus did for me on the Cross; and this is also my salvation.
Therefore, those who have not received what Christ did as a sacrifice do not have salvation.
This is the teaching of the Bible.
But, if you are going to cut out portions of the Bible because you don't think they are in conjunction with "the message of God's agape love", then you need to consider that it is very probable that the book spoken of in Revelation 22:18-19 is the entire Bible.
And you would not be wise to gamble that it is speaking only of the book of Revelation; because if you are wrong and are deleting things from the Bible, most assuredly your name will be taken out of the Lamb's Book of Life according to that scripture.
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The kind of regret and remorse that is the most devastating is the unintended irreversible harm to those we should love. It usually results from our obliviousness to the harmful effect of our actions. When we learn what we caused and cannot ever undo or repair, the anguish can be unbearable.
