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According to Acts 2:23 the Jews used the Romans to put Jesus to death.
Acts 2:23 this man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death.
Paul is not lying, but your interpretation of what he is saying is misguided. What was the reason they could not be justified by the law of Moses, Charlie? They couldn't keep the laws perfectly. But what Jesus did on the Cross perfectly kept the actual purpose of them all -- love of God and each other. That is called fulfilling the purpose of the law making it no longer a failing of humans (sins of mankind) because Jesus did it as a human thereby justifying all humans. (That is also known as connecting us all permanently with God's perfect agape love.)
“... David Bivin says that the phrase “fulfill the Law” was also used as an idiom that meant to “interpret the Torah correctly.” The Hebrew word for “fulfill” that Jesus would have used when speaking is kayem (KAI-yem) which literally means, “to uphold” or “to establish,” as well as “to fulfill.” 2 In the Mishnah, it is actually used both ways. It can mean to describe teaching the Torah in the sense of confirming, explaining, or interpreting correctly, but it also can mean to carry out and obey, to actually do what the law commands says. Sometimes it carries both ideas—to interpret the Torah in order to follow it correctly. Here are some examples of the variety of usages:
“If this is how you act, you have never in your whole life fulfilled (kayem) the religious requirement of dwelling in a sukkah!'” Sukkot 2:7 (One rabbi is criticising another’s interpretation of the Torah, which caused him not to do what it really says.)
R. Yonatan says, “Whoever keeps (kayem) the Torah when poor will in the end keep it in wealth. And whoever treats the Torah as nothing when he is wealthy in the end will treat it as nothing in poverty.” Avot 4:9 (Here it means “to obey” – definitely the opposite of “fulfill in order to do away with.”)...” - https://engediresourcecenter.com/201...0correctly.”
“... David Bivin says that the phrase “fulfill the Law” was also used as an idiom that meant to “interpret the Torah correctly.” The Hebrew word for “fulfill” that Jesus would have used when speaking is kayem (KAI-yem) which literally means, “to uphold” or “to establish,” as well as “to fulfill.” 2 In the Mishnah, it is actually used both ways. It can mean to describe teaching the Torah in the sense of confirming, explaining, or interpreting correctly, but it also can mean to carry out and obey, to actually do what the law commands says. Sometimes it carries both ideas—to interpret the Torah in order to follow it correctly. Here are some examples of the variety of usages:
“If this is how you act, you have never in your whole life fulfilled (kayem) the religious requirement of dwelling in a sukkah!'” Sukkot 2:7 (One rabbi is criticising another’s interpretation of the Torah, which caused him not to do what it really says.)
R. Yonatan says, “Whoever keeps (kayem) the Torah when poor will in the end keep it in wealth. And whoever treats the Torah as nothing when he is wealthy in the end will treat it as nothing in poverty.” Avot 4:9 (Here it means “to obey” – definitely the opposite of “fulfill in order to do away with.”)...” - https://engediresourcecenter.com/201...0correctly.”
Thank you, Richard. Your insights have been a Godsend, truly.
Does not the scripture say that "it pleased God to bruise Him?"
That is the agape love of God for mankind!
Doesn't the scripture also say, "He laid on Him the iniquity of us all?"
Pneuma, if you think Jesus was murdered, or that His life was taken against God's will, you do not understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ!
John 10:18
"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Like I have been saying to you for months charlie you teach about a God who sins.
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Like I have been saying to you for months charlie you teach about a God who sins.
I suppose when you have no other recourse things of this nature will be said.
I have never heard of anyone accusing another of believing God is a sinner!
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Like I have been saying to you for months charlie you teach about a God who sins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24
I suppose when you have no other recourse things of this nature will be said.
I have never heard of anyone accusing another of believing God is a sinner!
Stop replying with your knee-jerk rote responses and try to THINK about what is in the bold from the mouth of Jesus! Now compare that to your belief that GOD delivered Him into the hands of Pilate to be crucified to pay for "whatever." Read it again, Charlie. He that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin Who does YOUR BELIEF make the sinner?
Stop replying with your knee-jerk rote responses and try to THINK about what is in the bold from the mouth of Jesus! Now compare that to your belief that GOD delivered Him into the hands of Pilate to be crucified to pay for "whatever." Read it again, Charlie. He that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin Who does YOUR BELIEF make the sinner?
Daaaa! Who was it that delivered Jesus to Pilate and demanded He be put to death?
Daaaa! Who was it that delivered Jesus to Pilate and demanded He be put to death?
Judas Iscariot didn't deliver Jesus to Pilate, he didn't demand Him to be put to death!
It was the Jewish leaders of Israel that did it!
Jesus specifically said, "he that hath delivered me UNTO YOU, hath the greater sin.
The Jews brought Jesus before Pilate! Of course Judas betrayed Christ, but thought He would overthrow the Romans. But that was not why He came the first time, that was to redeem man, including the Jews who thought they were already saved by virtue of being given the Law.
Daaaa! Who was it that delivered Jesus to Pilate and demanded He be put to death?
Make up your mind, Charlie. Did God demand that He be delivered to appease His wrath or not???? You can't blame the Jews if God demanded it! Do you see where our ignorant ancestors' automatic belief that God decides everything leads you???
Make up your mind, Charlie. Did God demand that He be delivered to appease His wrath or not???? You can't blame the Jews if God demanded it! Do you see where our ignorant ancestors' automatic belief that God decides everything leads you???
Have I not shown you that Jesus offered Himself to God as the sacrifice of Blood atonement for man that God demanded was the atonement for sin in Leviticus?
But that scripture is of none effect to you! You have chosen not to believe!
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