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Let's talk about this without fighting. I think we can do that. In all of the points I listed, how do you think we define our terms differently?
A big one is the relationship between the Father and the Son. The LDS church doesn't teach the Trinity, as Christianity has historically understood it.
A big one is the relationship between the Father and the Son. The LDS church doesn't teach the Trinity, as Christianity has historically understood it.
But I didn't even mention that point in the many that I listed that you don't seem to think we have in common. Besides, Michael Way and I had a long discussion about our beliefs concerning the relationship between the Father and the Son and found that when we were willing to try to actually understand one another's perspectives, they weren't too terribly different. As you know, he's a Trinitarian. Besides, I do believe everything the Bible actually has to say about their relationship. There aren't any passages I dispute. But back to my actual post, those are all points I believe we can agree on, even if I don't accept the creedal definitions of God. I'm genuinely trying, BF. I'd be very happy to know that there are actually points of Christianity we can agree on. It just seems as if you find the idea of agreeing with a Mormon on ANYTHING to be absolutely abhorant, and that makes me really sad.
But I didn't even mention that point in the many that I listed that you don't seem to think we have in common. Besides, Michael Way and I had a long discussion about our beliefs concerning the relationship between the Father and the Son and found that when we were willing to try to actually understand one another's perspectives, they weren't too terribly different. As you know, he's a Trinitarian. Besides, I do believe everything the Bible actually has to say about their relationship. There aren't any passages I dispute. But back to my actual post, those are all points I believe we can agree on, even if I don't accept the creedal definitions of God. I'm genuinely trying, BF. I'd be very happy to know that there are actually points of Christianity we can agree on. It just seems as if you find the idea of agreeing with a Mormon on ANYTHING to be absolutely abhorant, and that makes me really sad.
I know more about your religion than you think I do. I've been studying apologetics for 30 years. If one believes that the Son is the spiritual son of the Father and his wife, that's a major issue. I cannot be in agreement with said person. I'm sorry. I don't hate you, and I don't hate Mormons. But that is a major sticking point.
I know more about your religion than you think I do. I've been studying apologetics for 30 years.
Yes, but you've been studying only one side of the issue, right? How much have you studied from the LDS perspective? Probably not much, because you don't think Mormons can be trusted to give you a "straight answer" about what they believe. Your sources say that Mormons believe [such and such]. The LDS sources will try to clarify our beliefs and you just dismiss them as if we were lying -- which we're not. We're telling you what we really do believe. You just don't believe us.
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If one believes that the Son is the spiritual son of the Father and his wife, that's a major issue. I cannot be in agreement with said person. I'm sorry. I don't hate you, and I don't hate Mormons. But that is a major sticking point.
Okay, so why can't we discuss the things we do agree on? That's what I don't get. I mentioned nineteen points that I think you would have no issue with. Why are you so hesitant to discuss them? And why are you so afraid that you'll find ANY common ground with us? Do you think you'll be judged as a heretic if we actually do have things in common?
Yes, but you've been studying only one side of the issue, right? How much have you studied from the LDS perspective? Probably not much, because you don't think Mormons can be trusted to give you a "straight answer" about what they believe. Your sources say that Mormons believe [such and such]. The LDS sources will try to clarify our beliefs and you just dismiss them as if we were lying -- which we're not. We're telling you what we really do believe. You just don't believe us.
I've read a book that details your beliefs written by a former President of the LDS church, can't remember which one. I've also read a good part of the Book of Mormon. I can't claim to have read all of it.
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Okay, so why can't we discuss the things we do agree on? That's what I don't get. I mentioned nineteen points that I think you would have no issue with. Why are you so hesitant to discuss them? And why are you so afraid that you'll find ANY common ground with us? Do you think you'll be judged as a heretic if we actually do have things in common?
Who Jesus is IS the major point of Christianity. If we don't agree on that, we don't agree on anything. Again, no hate, no animosity. Just the way it is.
Who Jesus is IS the major point of Christianity. If we don't agree on that, we don't agree on anything. Again, no hate, no animosity. Just the way it is.
Jesus is the major point of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, too, BF. For some reason, you think He isn't, but He is the focus of everything we do. Joseph Smith once said, "The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it." I know it's a losing battle trying to get you to see me as a sister in Christ, but Jesus Christ knows I am His. I guess it's really not all that important that you don't.
Jesus is the major point of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints, too, BF. For some reason, you think He isn't, but He is the focus of everything we do. Joseph Smith once said, "The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it." I know it's a losing battle trying to get you to see me as a sister in Christ, but Jesus Christ knows I am His. I guess it's really not all that important that you don't.
I admire the effort and patience you put into trying to get him to acknowledge common ground but I think you're right that it's a losing battle.
I also really liked the episode where Jesus was with the children.
And two scenes really stuck in my mind - the one in which Jesus invites Mathew to follow him. And the one in which Nicodemus ALMOST follows Jesus. As Jesus said, "He was so close."
I admire the effort and patience you put into trying to get him to acknowledge common ground but I think you're right that it's a losing battle.
It is, and I am going to give up. The only thing I will not stop doing is telling people the truth about what Mormons believe. They can believe anything they want and I can't do anything about it, but it hurts like hell to be told that you're not giving people "straight answers" when you are.
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