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That is a good question, and one I have pondered for many years (among other things)
After I left the Southern Baptists after decades there I attended and studied in an Eastern Orthodox Church . You don’t walk the aisle one Sunday and join the EO. You read specific books, you meet with the priest and maybe some other teachers , and you spend 6 months learning all you can about them to make sure you understand and will fit in. I ultimately didn’t, but I enjoyed my time there . But I learned quite a bit . The way the early Christians learned about the faith was the Divine Liturgy. It is the essence of the Christian faith written into a song/chant that is led by the priest . It’s how the early Christians got by .
As an aside, Protestants like to talk about being people of the Book. I heard more Scripture read in the EO services though. Every service has 3 decently long Scripture readings, one OT, one NT that was non Gospel, and then one Gospel reading . For the Gospel reading the priest would walk to the center of all the people , with people turning to face him as he walked by so they never had their back turned to the Book of the Gospels , and then he read the Gospel portion standing in the midst of all the people turned to face him.
I saw much more reverence for and knowledge of the Bible in the EO church than I did in the Southern Baptists church .
"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day." (John 12:48)
"Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." (John 6:68)
"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." (Heb. 4:12)
The point of why one should look elsewhere than Scripture for the "Words of Life"... escapes me. It seems today that it is considered sophisticated or wise to reject Scripture as God's "Truth Standard" ... in favor any number of alternatives. It's not as though Scripture doesn't give us enough to consider.
A serious question here . Given that Bibles weren’t around as codified Scripture until hundreds of years after the Apostles, and that the average Christian didn’t have his own Bible until only a few hundred years ago ( the first printed Bible that made it available to the common person was about 1500AD ) , how did the early Christians get by?
A well known Christian historian and bishop of about 320 AD lists the following books of the Bible as not scripture, to varying degrees . James, Jude, 2nd Peter, 2nd and 3rd John. Revelations was also suspect and not accepted by many Christians . So as late as 300 years after Christ the Bible isn’t really established as we now know it . For reference, the US will have been around for 300 years in about 55 more years . So there was no Bible as we know it available to early Christians for longer than the US has been a nation
But until the printing press came along only rich people that could afford to pay scribes to hand copy a Bible for them had their own Bibles . In addition, until about the 1700s most of the common people were illiterate . So how did the non wealthy and the illiterate get by for 1500- 1600 years after the Apostles ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meerkat2
That is a good question, and one I have pondered for many years (among other things)
While individuals in the early church did not all have copies of the various letters which later all came under one cover - the New Testament Canon, the pastor or another person of a particular local assembly of the church could read to the congregation those copies of whatever letters he had. Paul said in some of his letters (or in at least one of them, I'd have to look to see if he said this about any of his other letters) to have them read to the other churches as well. For instance, in Colossians 4:16 Paul wanted his letter read in the church of the Laodiceans after it had been read to the Colossian assembly. Revelation 1:3 pronounces a blessing on one who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy suggesting that Revelation was to be read to an assembly of believers.
Just something that came to me speaking of the keys
To the Church in Philadelphia
Rev 3:7**And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Rev 3:8**I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:9**Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Rev 3:10**Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Rev 3:11**Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev 3:12**Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev 3:13**He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
I also like to understand the meaning within the names too
G5361***(Strong)
φιλάδελφος
philadelphos
fil-ad'-el-fos
From G5384 and G80; fond of brethren, that is, fraternal: - love as brethren.
Here are more Scriptures which the words key or keys are found. Just reading through them leads me to think the meaning is something used to open or close doors. Isaiah 22:22 is speaking of Jesus.
Rev 1:18
I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Judg 3:25
And they tarried till they were ashamed: and, behold, he opened not the doors of the parlour; therefore they took a key, and opened them: and, behold, their lord was fallen down dead on the earth.
Isa 22:22
And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Luke 11:52
Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Rev 3:7
And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Rev 9:1
And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
Rev 20:1
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
"There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day." (John 12:48)
"Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." (John 6:68)
"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart." (Heb. 4:12)
The point of why one should look elsewhere than Scripture for the "Words of Life"... escapes me. It seems today that it is considered sophisticated or wise to reject Scripture as God's "Truth Standard" ... in favor any number of alternatives. It's not as though Scripture doesn't give us enough to consider.
Why only scriptures though? Scriptures that weren't even written down and compiled by the time the passage in 2 Peter was written?
The Holy Spirit spoke through the Apostles decades before His words were recorded. They in turn preached those words to the various congregations.. Do you really think they sat on those teachings from the Holy Spirit until they could write them down?
The Holy Spirit spoke through the Apostles decades before His words were recorded. They in turn preached those words to the various congregations.. Do you really think they sat on those teachings from the Holy Spirit until they could write them down?
So your saying the church came before the scripture. Correct.
So your saying the church came before the scripture. Correct.
Until, it became the synagogue of Satan through the falling away from truth with its fallacious teachings.
Which may have resulted from innocent errors in reasoning or were taught deliberately to mislead others.
Until, it became the synagogue of Satan through the falling away from truth with its fallacious teachings. Which may have resulted from innocent errors in reasoning or were taught deliberately to mislead others.
I suspect it has been a mixture of both beginning with the unwarranted assumption that our ancestors' beliefs about a wrathful and vengeful God were legitimate and perpetuating because of its success in spreading growth of membership, wealth, and the expansion of power and control over the masses.
Regardless of whether Sola scriptura is biblical or not, it obviously doesn't work. There are Protestants that believe in salvation by grace, and others in salvation by works. Some believe in speaking in tongues , others don't . Some believe in baptism by immersion, some by sprinkling, some don't accept it at all. Some think it is necessary for salvation, others that it is just a symbol. Most believe Christ is divine but some don't. Some believe in the Trinity while others don't.
And they ALL will tell you they believe what they believe because "the Bible says so".
Its almost as if there was not any intention that Scripture would be the only means of authority and teaching .
Excellent answer! We all believe the Bible, but we do not all interpret it the same way. I have come to the conclusion that any doctrine of any Christian Church on earth can be "proven" by an appeal to the right verses in the Bible. People (and that includes literally all of us) focus on the passages that they believe to be expressing "truth" as they understand it and turn a blind eye to the passages that might be used to prove us wrong.
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