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The canon of the bible isn't mentioned in the New Testament. The doctrine of the Trinity isn't mentioned in the New Testament. The doctrine of the bible only isn't mentioned in the New Testament. I could go on but you get my drift.
I don't think his argument fell apart at all.
I guess it depends on your view of Jesus. You either believe the words He spoke or you don’t.
Matthew 15
8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
Transubstantiation is a doctrine of men. It is the single most important doctrine of the RCC, yet we never see it happening even once in the New Testament. In fact, we don’t see it in early church history either. When someone gives the answer, “So what,” it’s pretty clear they have no answer at all.
I guess it depends on your view of Jesus. You either believe the words He spoke or you don’t.
Matthew 15
8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
Transubstantiation is a doctrine of men. It is the single most important doctrine of the RCC, yet we never see it happening even once in the New Testament. In fact, we don’t see it in early church history either. When someone gives the answer, “So what,” it’s pretty clear they have no answer at all.
Why do you think Jesus would allow many of his disciples to leave him, and ask if the Apostles were going to leave him, over his claim that he was actually referring to his own flesh and blood if he meant it allegorically? Does it make sense for Jesus to allow disciples to leave because they misunderstood him and he didn't bother to correct their understanding? He let them leave because he couldn't be bothered to correct their misunderstanding ?
Why do you think Jesus would allow many of his disciples to leave him, and ask if the Apostles were going to leave him, over his claim that he was actually referring to his own flesh and blood if he meant it allegorically? Does it make sense for Jesus to allow disciples to leave because they misunderstood him and he didn't bother to correct their understanding? He let them leave because he couldn't be bothered to correct their misunderstanding ?
To your point about Jesus allowing them to leave…
Jesus gives each of us a choice. He doesn’t force anyone to follow Him.
These people who had been following Jesus quarreled and complained. It wasn’t that they couldn’t understand what Jesus was saying. They wouldn’t accept His sayings because they wanted instant physical gratification.
If you look back at John 6:26, you will see that Jesus knew the hearts of these people. They saw the signs, and now they want to be fed. They were not sincerely wanting to learn. Thank They were acting just like the Israelites in the wilderness, whining and complaining. In verse 30-33, they demand a sign in order to believe. Their mentality was that Moses gave bread everyday, then the least Jesus can do is feed us everyday. Jesus tells them Moses didn’t give them bread. He tells them My Father did, and now He is giving you the true bread, which is Me! But their hearts were focused on the physical flesh and not on the spiritual aspects of what Jesus was telling them.
Jesus made a similar offer to the Samaritan woman at the well. He offered her living water, saying, “Whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life” (John 4:13-14).
The Samaritan woman thought Jesus offered her a literal, magical water. She said, “Master, give me this water, so I will not be thirsty nor come all the way here to draw” (John 4:15). She was focused on the physical.
The people also took Jesus’ offer of bread literally. They said to Him, “Master, always give us this bread” (6:34). The Samaritan woman and the people in 6:22-did not look beyond the physical world.
The key to understanding John 6 is reading it in its entire context and paying special attention to Jesus’ words in 6:63.
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
To your point about Jesus allowing them to leave…
Jesus gives each of us a choice. He doesn’t force anyone to follow Him.
These people who had been following Jesus quarreled and complained. It wasn’t that they couldn’t understand what Jesus was saying. They wouldn’t accept His sayings because they wanted instant physical gratification.
If you look back at John 6:26, you will see that Jesus knew the hearts of these people. They saw the signs, and now they want to be fed. They were not sincerely wanting to learn. Thank They were acting just like the Israelites in the wilderness, whining and complaining. In verse 30-33, they demand a sign in order to believe. Their mentality was that Moses gave bread everyday, then the least Jesus can do is feed us everyday. Jesus tells them Moses didn’t give them bread. He tells them My Father did, and now He is giving you the true bread, which is Me! But their hearts were focused on the physical flesh and not on the spiritual aspects of what Jesus was telling them.
Jesus made a similar offer to the Samaritan woman at the well. He offered her living water, saying, “Whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life” (John 4:13-14).
The Samaritan woman thought Jesus offered her a literal, magical water. She said, “Master, give me this water, so I will not be thirsty nor come all the way here to draw” (John 4:15). She was focused on the physical.
The people also took Jesus’ offer of bread literally. They said to Him, “Master, always give us this bread” (6:34). The Samaritan woman and the people in 6:22-did not look beyond the physical world.
The key to understanding John 6 is reading it in its entire context and paying special attention to Jesus’ words in 6:63.
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Nonsense . They responded directly to his words that his flesh and blood was food and drink . They questioned his saying, asking how Jesus could give them his flesh and blood to eat and drink , and when he didn’t explain it as allegorical, many left him. After many left him, he then asked the apostles if they too were going to leave him . At no time did he ever claim his words were allegorical or symbolic , despite many followers leaving him DIRECTLY because of his claim .
So again , why would Jesus allow followers to leave , if he didn’t really mean it literally and the people simply misunderstood him? Just answer that and don’t try to confuse the issue by expanding out into other things . Why did he let followers leave over his claim if he was speaking symbolically and they just misunderstood him ?
I guess it depends on your view of Jesus. You either believe the words He spoke or you don’t.
Matthew 15
8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
Transubstantiation is a doctrine of men. It is the single most important doctrine of the RCC, yet we never see it happening even once in the New Testament. In fact, we don’t see it in early church history either. When someone gives the answer, “So what,” it’s pretty clear they have no answer at all.
It's not clear to me at all. "So what" is a legit question to me.
Like I said, there are many doctrines, which I listed, not mentioned or performed or whatever in the New Testament. Here, I'll list them again:
The canon of the bible isn't mentioned in the New Testament. The doctrine of the Trinity isn't mentioned in the New Testament. The doctrine of the bible only isn't mentioned in the New Testament.
Ignatius, in the year 110 ad, clarified that the church considered the Eucharist, which they were already practicing, to be the literal body and blood of Jesus Christ. I dunno, call me crazy, but that seems pretty early on in church history.
It's not clear to me at all. "So what" is a legit question to me.
Like I said, there are many doctrines, which I listed, not mentioned or performed or whatever in the New Testament. Here, I'll list them again:
The canon of the bible isn't mentioned in the New Testament. The doctrine of the Trinity isn't mentioned in the New Testament. The doctrine of the bible only isn't mentioned in the New Testament.
Ignatius, in the year 110 ad, clarified that the church considered the Eucharist, which they were already practicing, to be the literal body and blood of Jesus Christ. I dunno, call me crazy, but that seems pretty early on in church history.
Jesus was given all authority in heaven and on earth. He has authority over all thing in the church. If a doctrine is not found in His word, then it’s not His. What possible proof do you have for the many doctrines taught by the RCC if they are not found in His word. Neither Jesus nor His penmen ever spoke or wrote about them. So where does that leave you? How will you answer Jesus when He asks you about your doctrinal practices? How much clearer can He make it when He says your worship is worthless when your doctrines are from men?
Jesus was given all authority in heaven and on earth. He has authority over all thing in the church. If a doctrine is not found in His word, then it’s not His. What possible proof do you have for the many doctrines taught by the RCC if they are not found in His word. Neither Jesus nor His penmen ever spoke or wrote about them. So where does that leave you? How will you answer Jesus when He asks you about your doctrinal practices? How much clearer can He make it when He says your worship is worthless when your doctrines are from men?
So do you not believe in the Trinity? Do you not believe in the canon of scripture? I mean, neither of them are mentioned in the bible.
I won't go into a ton of detail about my answers to Jesus (especially since I don't know what He's going to ask me -nor do you). But I will say that I will probably fall down on my face before Him.
Jesus was given all authority in heaven and on earth. He has authority over all thing in the church. If a doctrine is not found in His word, then it’s not His. What possible proof do you have for the many doctrines taught by the RCC if they are not found in His word. Neither Jesus nor His penmen ever spoke or wrote about them. So where does that leave you? How will you answer Jesus when He asks you about your doctrinal practices? How much clearer can He make it when He says your worship is worthless when your doctrines are from men?
Then why do you so foolishly rely on what men say Jesus said without checking it with Jesus Himself - the Comforter (Holy Spirit) sent in His name to guide us to the Truth. We have to get into the "mind of Christ" as He revealed, described, and unambiguously demonstrated on the Cross. His mind is agape loving and forgiving, even of His torturers and murderers. Why would you believe anything men wrote that contradicts that kind of mind???
Philippians 2:5 King James Version
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus
1st Corinthians 2:16 (King James Version)
16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
We all have a choice. We can be hearers and doers of God’s word or hearers and doers of Catholic doctrine.
Matthew 15
8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
I used to win all the prizes in Sunday School for being the first to memorize verses (as well as being the first to memorize all 66 books of the Bible in order), so I'm really not impressed when people quote the Bible in lieu of dialogue.
There are more choices than those you list above.
One of those choices is understanding that the person to whom you are speaking is coming from a different perspective than you are. You may still feel that you are "right", but you really don't get any special points from God for believing that your way is superior, you know.
I used to win all the prizes in Sunday School for being the first to memorize verses (as well as being the first to memorize all 66 books of the Bible in order), so I'm really not impressed when people quote the Bible in lieu of dialogue.
There are more choices than those you list above.
One of those choices is understanding that the person to whom you are speaking is coming from a different perspective than you are. You may still feel that you are "right", but you really don't get any special points from God for believing that your way is superior, you know.
You just get points for loving your neighbor.
Amen!
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Amen!
