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You didn’t quote all of what I said. We eat and drink His body and blood WHEN WE CONSUME HIS TEACHINGS.
I did - I posted your whole statement in the quote box; look, I'll post it again here now:
Quote:
Jesus is the bread of life. We eat His flesh and drink His blood when we consume His teachings. teachings. His words are what gives eternal life.
So earlier you said His words 'were' part of Him. Again, when did they get separated?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
I would never say we eat His physical body and drink His physical blood literally. That would be false.
The purpose of partaking of the Lord’s Supper is included in the five verses you posted in support of your view of transubstantiation.
We stare in the Lord’s Supper in remembrance of the sacrifice Jesus made for us at the cross. We do so to show His death till He comes.
Well, neither do Catholics say we eat His physical body or His physical blood: We, Christ, and scripture say - alēthēs- TRUE body and TRUE blood (John 6:55)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
We are never told to sacrifice Him over and over.
Again, Catholics do not 're-crucify' Jesus - you can watch this clip if you want clarification -
We are following the form laid down by Jesus - bread and wine - this is my body, this is my blood.
Hebrews 10:20 makes it pretty clear that we enter the sanctuary by His body.
Read all of Hebrews 7,8,9,10 if you need clarification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
Understanding the purpose helps one to understand Jesus did not mean that He wanted us to physically eat His body and drink His blood. What would be the purpose in that?
hmmmmmm, it might just have a little something to do with His new and everlasting covenant (Luke 22:20,Mat26:27-28, Mark 14:23-24, and John 6:51&53&54&56&57&58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissKate12
If you can’t answer, I understand. It’s because you can’t, not because it’s off topic.
Jesus answered all this 2000 yrs ago, and now I have too.
Now you answer this - So earlier you said His words 'were' part of Him. Again, when did they get separated? You seem to be refusing to answer.
The exact term may not be used in Scripture but the concepts are there (clothed in narratives as it were)
I agree with Kate that the bread and wine does not actually/literally get changed Into the body/blood of Christ (and ccc and mike agree with that) but the bread/wine is there as the natural focus that was instituted as instructed through the physical church via the Apostles to the Fathers/Doctors/Saints..... to the Bishops, to the teachers, etc .....
The symbolism is related to the transfiguration/overshadowing/symbolism that has been embedded in Scripture via the scribes/prophets/priests, That is all part of their “jobs” and “work” that they do for the kingdom, and I see Paul referring to this same type of transfiguration and fleshing out of the symbolism as well in 1 Corinthians 3-4
Mat 17:1**And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2**And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3**And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4**Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mat 17:5**While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mat 17:6**And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Mat 17:7**And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
Mat 17:8**And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Mat 17:9**And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
1Co 1:12**Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 3:2**I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3**For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4**For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5**Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 4:5**Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
1Co 4:6**And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
1Co 4:1**Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
1Co 4:2**Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
It doesn’t matter if you are a Roman Catholic, a Protestant, a Latter Day Saint, a church of Christ or unaffiliated each has been given “rituals” and “narratives” and “doctrines” suitable for children
The exact term may not be used in Scripture but the concepts are there (clothed in narratives as it were)
I agree with Kate that the bread and wine does not actually/literally get changed Into the body/blood of Christ (and ccc and mike agree with that) but the bread/wine is there as the natural focus that was instituted as instructed through the physical church via the Apostles to the Fathers/Doctors/Saints..... to the Bishops, to the teachers, etc .....
The symbolism is related to the transfiguration/overshadowing/symbolism that has been embedded in Scripture via the scribes/prophets/priests, That is all part of their “jobs” and “work” that they do for the kingdom, and I see Paul referring to this same type of transfiguration and fleshing out of the symbolism as well in 1 Corinthians 3-4
Mat 17:1**And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2**And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3**And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4**Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mat 17:5**While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Mat 17:6**And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
Mat 17:7**And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
Mat 17:8**And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Mat 17:9**And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
1Co 1:12**Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 3:2**I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3**For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4**For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5**Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 4:5**Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
1Co 4:6**And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
1Co 4:1**Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.
1Co 4:2**Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
It doesn’t matter if you are a Roman Catholic, a Protestant, a Latter Day Saint, a church of Christ or unaffiliated each has been given “rituals” and “narratives” and “doctrines” suitable for children
I’m confused by your last statement. I thought there was only one doctrine, that of Christ.
I’m confused by your last statement. I thought there was only one doctrine, that of Christ.
I’m speaking of the allegory and symbolism
And how we are to understand the meaning behind the symbolism
Mat 10:16**Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Mat 10:17**But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Mat 10:18**And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
Ah, OK, got it. I don't think that way. I figure if I'm wrong about something that is concerning to God, God will let me know.
He will let you know through His word. One of my favorite verses: “For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.” I guess that’s a pretty good reason to be in the word each day. The Holy Spirit truly does convict us.
Me: Nowhere in the New Testament do we read of anyone, including Jesus’ chosen Apostles, transubstantiating. Not even Peter.
You: So what.
Your argument just fell apart.
The canon of the bible isn't mentioned in the New Testament. The doctrine of the Trinity isn't mentioned in the New Testament. The doctrine of the bible only isn't mentioned in the New Testament. I could go on but you get my drift.
He will let you know through His word. One of my favorite verses: “For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.” I guess that’s a pretty good reason to be in the word each day. The Holy Spirit truly does convict us.
The Holy Spirit cannot convict you or influence you in any way if you are NOT in the states of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit of agape love as revealed by Jesus Christ, period. It is the states of mind evoked by His sacrifice on the Cross that bring the Holy Spirit to our consciousness.
There is no magic about it and it is not dependent upon when you THINK the Holy Spirit is guiding you based on your beliefs from the Bible. He is NOT guiding you when you are in any other states of mind, especially those that are OPPOSITE.
For the best of all reasons. Someone created a thread on it
When I saw it, I did a search on the word in thread titles because I was sure it's been discussed here before. Several came up, but none recent so I let this one stand.
From a sola scriptura point of view, not a Catholic one.
We all have a choice. We can be hearers and doers of God’s word or hearers and doers of Catholic doctrine.
Matthew 15
8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”
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