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I think we learn things. I may not agree with the Catholic view, but I understand that's what Catholics believe. I am not interested in arguing with a devout Catholic to try to convince them they are wrong, either. I might be wrong, too.
As a matter of fact, many years ago I went out and bought a book by Karl Keating, a Catholic apologist, because my Catholic friend could not answer the questions I had as to why Catholics believe certain Traditions like Purgatory, Transubstantiation, etc. It was a book written for Catholics to answer fundamentalists (which I am not, but still didn't know the answers) because so many Catholics didn't know enough about their own religion to respond to them when questions were put to them.
It was really informative, made sense, helped me understand Catholicism better, and when I was done, I gave it to Mary, my good Catholic friend.
I think you are the exception to the rule. Most people who aren't Catholic wouldn't do what you did - which I commend you for by the way.
Most people don't know why they believe the way they do for the record, which I think is sad but it's just the way it is.
They no doubt don’t feel that they are following the doctrine of men, but of what Christ told the Apostles . The Catholics can just as easily quote those verses to you for leaving them for other teachings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
We believe that it is done in remembrance of Christ's atoning sacrifice and that when we receive it we are renewing our baptismal covenants to remember Him and keep His commandments so that we will always have His spirit to be with us. In other words, we do not believe in Transubstantiation.
That is all He asked, NOT to believe in some elaborated theology about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
Certainly in a sense, this is true. However, in the Catholic Church we commune with Christ in a much more profound way; not just spiritually, but physically.
I would not consider the doctrine of transubstantiation and the Real Presence of Christ to be mere minutiae or something of no real importance, as the implications of such a doctrine are monumental.
That is fine, Mike, if it helps you to be closer in your consciousness to Jesus and God to add that theology to what Jesus asked, that just strengthens the connection with His Holy Spirit, IMO. But it is not and should not be considered a condition for those who achieve that closeness without it.
I readily admit that I am completely biased by the fact that I had NO BELIEFS whatsoever about God and could hardly have been considered "worthy" at the time yet He connected with me spectacularly!
We believe that it is done in remembrance of Christ's atoning sacrifice and that when we receive it we are renewing our baptismal covenants to remember Him and keep His commandments so that we will always have His spirit to be with us. In other words, we do not believe in Transubstantiation.
I didn’t think you did, but I wasn’t sure. Thank you for clarifying. My understanding is that the bread and fruit of the vine are symbolic. We take them to remember Him and to show His death until He comes. The bread represents His body. The fruit of the vine His blood.
Um yeah, I've heard those verses before, obviously. Not sure what your point is or how it relates to what I posted.
I was responding to what you wrote. You said you might be wrong too.
“ I think we learn things. I may not agree with the Catholic view, but I understand that's what Catholics believe. I am not interested in arguing with a devout Catholic to try to convince them they are wrong, either. I might be wrong, too.”
I do understand you not want to “argue,” but keep in mind that Christians are to contend for the faith.
If someone thinks I’m wrong, I want them to tell me and show me why. I challenge my own beliefs, and if I can be shown with the Scriptures that I’m wrong, I am more than willing to change the way I think. I don’t ever want Jesus to tell me on judgement day that I was following blind guides.
I was responding to what you wrote. You said you might be wrong too.
“ I think we learn things. I may not agree with the Catholic view, but I understand that's what Catholics believe. I am not interested in arguing with a devout Catholic to try to convince them they are wrong, either. I might be wrong, too.”
I do understand you not want to “argue,” but keep in mind that Christians are to contend for the faith.
If someone thinks I’m wrong, I want them to tell me and show me why. I challenge my own beliefs, and if I can be shown with the Scriptures that I’m wrong, I am more than willing to change the way I think. I don’t ever want Jesus to tell me on judgement day that I was following blind guides.
In view of your stubborn attitude regarding water baptism being necessary for salvation despite having been shown that it is not necessary, I find that last paragraph to be less than truthful.
I was responding to what you wrote. You said you might be wrong too.
“ I think we learn things. I may not agree with the Catholic view, but I understand that's what Catholics believe. I am not interested in arguing with a devout Catholic to try to convince them they are wrong, either. I might be wrong, too.”
I do understand you not want to “argue,” but keep in mind that Christians are to contend for the faith.
If someone thinks I’m wrong, I want them to tell me and show me why. I challenge my own beliefs, and if I can be shown with the Scriptures that I’m wrong, I am more than willing to change the way I think. I don’t ever want Jesus to tell me on judgement day that I was following blind guides.
I don't want to argue either - I think it erodes our witness.
In view of your stubborn attitude regarding water baptism being necessary for salvation despite having been shown that it is not necessary, I find that last paragraph to be less than truthful.
To keep it from being an argument, instead of claiming it is not truthful, you should probably say you consider it inaccurate, Michael. Meerkat keeps trying to get me to see that I say things similarly with a seeming disregard for the negative aspersions contained within my posts. I am just trying to learn not to and help others see it as well.
To keep it from being an argument, instead of claiming it is not truthful, you should probably say you consider it inaccurate, Michael. Meerkat keeps trying to get me to see that I say things similarly with a seeming disregard for the negative aspersions contained within my posts. I am just trying to learn not to and help others see it as well.
I used the word I intended to use. And as MissKate12 now considers me to be persona non grata because I pointed out that the Bible contains quotes from pagan sources, I doubt she'll reply directly to me. But who knows? I'm pretty much done with this thread anyway.
By the way, I gave her the scriptural verses in which pagan sources were quoted but it didn't do any good, which further puts the lie to her claim that if she can be shown something from the Bible she would be willing to change her stance on something.
To keep it from being an argument, instead of claiming it is not truthful, you should probably say you consider it inaccurate, Michael. Meerkat keeps trying to get me to see that I say things similarly with a seeming disregard for the negative aspersions contained within my posts. I am just trying to learn not to and help others see it as well.
I was responding to what you wrote. You said you might be wrong too.
“ I think we learn things. I may not agree with the Catholic view, but I understand that's what Catholics believe. I am not interested in arguing with a devout Catholic to try to convince them they are wrong, either. I might be wrong, too.”
I do understand you not want to “argue,” but keep in mind that Christians are to contend for the faith.
If someone thinks I’m wrong, I want them to tell me and show me why. I challenge my own beliefs, and if I can be shown with the Scriptures that I’m wrong, I am more than willing to change the way I think. I don’t ever want Jesus to tell me on judgement day that I was following blind guides.
Ah, OK, got it. I don't think that way. I figure if I'm wrong about something that is concerning to God, God will let me know.
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