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everyone I know whether Christians or not have said the JW religion is a cult
There are a lot of religions out there, and many of them just say things upfront.
The evidence shown here has shown that JW are shown to lie to help the 'cause of God'
You first tried to debunk the source I put by saying 'it's off the internet'
Then someone posts the actual copy, and you still say it's false
then you later admit it then you decide to argue it.
Now i see why you want to leave this conversation
It is amazing how she twist the words trying to make all of us look bad, yet when the evidence is clear, she bails.
She knew all along what she was doing as she later admitted things that she denied at first.
Folks, when JW's come to your door, politely refuse and do not be entrapped with their lies. Any religion that would revert to these tactics is deinitely not Christ centered, and definitely not led by the spirit of God.
I think Alice left because the tone on here went from discussion to attack mode. What did you accomplish? She said that there were inaccurate iterpretations that were admitted and later rectified...PUBLICLY. None of your out of context snippets proved anything. Whatever your motives are for 'warning' others about witnesses, they surely don't seem to come from sincere Christian love.
Witnesses will use any bible to explain their beliefs. They PUBLICLY go door to door and tell people their beliefs. There is no hidden agenda, no secrets...just honest hearted people teaching others about the bible. They truly believe the bible is God's word. Witnesses are balked at for using the bible too much. If Witnesses come to your door, ask them to show you in YOUR bible. It makes no difference.
Lovethetruth, you seem saddened to no end about your aunt's death. It is never easy to lose loved ones, so my sympathies to you. If you consider the Witnesses to be bloodguilty for her death, then I hope your anger and scrutiny spills over to other faiths to account for their bloodguilt as well.
To answer the OP, YES I consider JW's to be Christians. They follow the principles in the bible, and they accept Jesus to be God's son and our savior.
If JW believe that Jesus is the angel Michael AND God's son at the SAME time then they must consider the devil/satan God's son as well??
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh
I think Alice left because the tone on here went from discussion to attack mode. What did you accomplish? She said that there were inaccurate iterpretations that were admitted and later rectified...PUBLICLY. None of your out of context snippets proved anything. Whatever your motives are for 'warning' others about witnesses, they surely don't seem to come from sincere Christian love.
Witnesses will use any bible to explain their beliefs. They PUBLICLY go door to door and tell people their beliefs. There is no hidden agenda, no secrets...just honest hearted people teaching others about the bible. They truly believe the bible is God's word. Witnesses are balked at for using the bible too much. If Witnesses come to your door, ask them to show you in YOUR bible. It makes no difference.
Lovethetruth, you seem saddened to no end about your aunt's death. It is never easy to lose loved ones, so my sympathies to you. If you consider the Witnesses to be bloodguilty for her death, then I hope your anger and scrutiny spills over to other faiths to account for their bloodguilt as well.
To answer the OP, YES I consider JW's to be Christians. They follow the principles in the bible, and they accept Jesus to be God's son and our savior.
If JW believe that Jesus is the angel Michael AND God's son at the SAME time then they must consider the devil/satan God's son as well??
I don't know if they do or not, but if they did, how would this exclude them from being a Christian faith? Christianity is based on who we believe Jesus Christ to be, not on what we consider Satan to be.
I think Alice left because the tone on here went from discussion to attack mode. What did you accomplish? She said that there were inaccurate iterpretations that were admitted and later rectified...PUBLICLY. None of your out of context snippets proved anything. Whatever your motives are for 'warning' others about witnesses, they surely don't seem to come from sincere Christian love.
Witnesses will use any bible to explain their beliefs. They PUBLICLY go door to door and tell people their beliefs. There is no hidden agenda, no secrets...just honest hearted people teaching others about the bible. They truly believe the bible is God's word. Witnesses are balked at for using the bible too much. If Witnesses come to your door, ask them to show you in YOUR bible. It makes no difference.
Lovethetruth, you seem saddened to no end about your aunt's death. It is never easy to lose loved ones, so my sympathies to you. If you consider the Witnesses to be bloodguilty for her death, then I hope your anger and scrutiny spills over to other faiths to account for their bloodguilt as well.
To answer the OP, YES I consider JW's to be Christians. They follow the principles in the bible, and they accept Jesus to be God's son and our savior.
No, they don't believe that Jesus is God's Son or that it's only through faith in Him that you gain access to the Father.
That is real issue.
No. They are not christian.
This thread was posted by a "phantom poster" ... and it was used to spin pages and pages of Jehovah Witness doctrine....
Out of 725 posts, 252 of them were from Alice. She "just wanted to be sure that people knew what the JW's believe."
That is the way they work. JW's believe that they should spread their message "by any means necessary".
I've run across many of them in the real world. Some of them will deny that they are JW's to infiltrate a christian congregation and attempt to convert weak believers to their way of thinking. They will actually tell you that they are no longer Jehovah's Witnesses to gain an audience but it doesn't take long to realize that they are teaching JW doctrines. I actually saw that happen in a church I visited. That particular man had even published a book about being delivered from being a Jehovah's Witness... but, it was just a ploy to gain acceptance and to win people's trust.
Their methods alone speak volumes about the character of their leader...
It is not possible for God to lie. God is holy.
Last edited by World Citizen; 01-05-2009 at 06:46 PM..
She said that there were inaccurate iterpretations that were admitted and later rectified...PUBLICLY
You will never find an apology from the Governing Body about anything they have got wrong. They tend to blame the flock for being 'over eager' about dates like they did when they altered the 'generation' prophecy in 1995. They had promoted the belief that the 'generation' that saw 1914 would see Armageddon. It was touted on their AWAKE magazine masthead for many years.
“…this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.”
The November 8 1995 AWAKE changed to:
“…this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked lawless system of things.”
This is what they said after all those years of unashamedly building up peoples hopes by promoting a false promise: November 1 WATCHTOWER
“Eager to see the end of this system, Jehovah’s people have at times speculated about the time when the ‘great tribulation’ would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914. However we ‘bring a heart of wisdom in,’ not by speculating about how many years or days make up a generation, but by thinking about how we ‘count our days’ in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah”.
They had the effrontery to blame the flock! The leaders of the JWs were the ones who had speculated, calculated, promoted times and years and dates! No JW would have dared to do that without putting himself at risk of being disfellowshipped for apostasy. This is just one instance where the leaders have showed arrogance, pride and dishonesty.
Yes, they have made changes, which begs the question, how much of what they now believe will be changed? They call it 'present' truth and then 'new truth' when they alter it. Truth is truth, it does not alter... if it is not truth, it is untruth, a lie, plain and simple. To the JW, 'Present truth' is THE only truth, no matter that it may not be the truth in a few years time.
It would not be so bad if it was not for the fact that if you question 'PRESENT TRUTH' you can be disfellowshipped for apostasy, an evildoer, cut off from your friends and any JW family. You are dead to them. If what you question changes to what you believe at a future time, you are still disfellowshipped...you 'ran ahead' of the Organization and therefore deserve to be estranged from your family until you die, unless you repent, sit at the back of the Kingdom Hall for months when no one will talk to you and humiliatingly apply for reinstatement. So much for the Biblical example of the prodigal son!
I actually would have at least had respect for the leaders of the JWs if they had had the guts to do what they are always telling the sheep to do, confess your sins. Instead, as has been shown on this thread, they have resorted to cover ups, altering their literature, blaming others and downright lies to perpetuate the myth of a wonderful, spiritual paradise inhabited by Gods true followers.
You will never find an apology from the Governing Body about anything they have got wrong. They tend to blame the flock for being 'over eager' about dates like they did when they altered the 'generation' prophecy in 1995. They had promoted the belief that the 'generation' that saw 1914 would see Armageddon. It was touted on their AWAKE magazine masthead for many years.
“…this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.”
The November 8 1995 AWAKE changed to:
“…this magazine builds confidence in the Creator’s promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked lawless system of things.”
This is what they said after all those years of unashamedly building up peoples hopes by promoting a false promise: November 1 WATCHTOWER
“Eager to see the end of this system, Jehovah’s people have at times speculated about the time when the ‘great tribulation’ would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914. However we ‘bring a heart of wisdom in,’ not by speculating about how many years or days make up a generation, but by thinking about how we ‘count our days’ in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah”.
They had the effrontery to blame the flock! The leaders of the JWs were the ones who had speculated, calculated, promoted times and years and dates! No JW would have dared to do that without putting himself at risk of being disfellowshipped for apostasy. This is just one instance where the leaders have showed arrogance, pride and dishonesty.
Yes, they have made changes, which begs the question, how much of what they now believe will be changed? They call it 'present' truth and then 'new truth' when they alter it. Truth is truth, it does not alter... if it is not truth, it is untruth, a lie, plain and simple. To the JW, 'Present truth' is THE only truth, no matter that it may not be the truth in a few years time.
It would not be so bad if it was not for the fact that if you question 'PRESENT TRUTH' you can be disfellowshipped for apostasy, an evildoer, cut off from your friends and any JW family. You are dead to them. If what you question changes to what you believe at a future time, you are still disfellowshipped...you 'ran ahead' of the Organization and therefore deserve to be estranged from your family until you die, unless you repent, sit at the back of the Kingdom Hall for months when no one will talk to you and humiliatingly apply for reinstatement. So much for the Biblical example of the prodigal son!
I actually would have at least had respect for the leaders of the JWs if they had had the guts to do what they are always telling the sheep to do, confess your sins. Instead, as has been shown on this thread, they have resorted to cover ups, altering their literature, blaming others and downright lies to perpetuate the myth of a wonderful, spiritual paradise inhabited by Gods true followers.
In spite of earlier mentioned connections (not affiliations) with JWs, there is in my mind a very persistant question:
Why?
Since the powers in compromise are never-ever truthfully answering, each of us is (not only "might be") left alone to answer to themselves.
And just look at our world!
Cool, eh?
Last edited by lwowl; 01-05-2009 at 08:52 PM..
Reason: Manna in the desert and the lessening trickle down effect
I think it is best left up to God on who is being Judged for their beliefs!
Sometimes I get so sick to my stomach when reading responses or questions regarding another person "faith" walk. What, that some council hundreds of years after the death of Jesus decided on how the label of "Christian" was to be defined? The Bible says that if you believe in God the Father, confess Jesus(His Son) as Lord, and believe in YOUR Heart that He died for your sins, confess them, REPENT from them, that YOU WILL BE SAVED.
Does it matter the "theology", or even the "religion"? Did Jesus start a religion, when His most condemning testimony was to the very religion of His people?
I see a ton of Pharisees today, all walking around in their "long robes" professing something they know very little about. Converting unbelievers to a belief that isn't on what Scriptures tell us it is, and then leaving them to their own demise wrought with sin!
Are we being LED by the TRUE Shepard? That IS the question after becoming a believer! If so, we would NOT be led into more sin, more carnality, and more of the sinful fleshly desires of this world. We would be LED in unison TO Father, through His Son.
WHAT MUST YOU DO IN ORDER TO BE SAVED, is the most simple question imaginable, but yet the answer is so complex, that even the geniuses of Theology cannot answer it for everyone. If they could, there would only be ONE CHURCH, with ONE CHRIST as LORD, and with ONE GOD. But there isn't, is there.
There are thousands ALL proclaiming the Truth, as THEY SEE IT. And it doesn't matter whether the church you "belong" to has the "first" foothold or not. We ALL are seeking Truth, and fellowship with like minded believers.
The OP asked the question as to whether I SEE Jehovah's Witnesses as Christians. My response would be LOOK IN YOUR OWN MIRROR, before casting ANY STONES!
Forgive me for my rant, but .
[FONT=Verdana]I think you are right Jesus said to his disciples if they are not against me they are for me. If we would all just try to be united as one as it is written we would not all be pulled apart. The problem is that everyone wants to believe they are right. This causes division and separation when we start judging each other. Jesus clearly said; do not judge or we will be judged. I like your attitude, so little I see it![/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]May God bless you,[/FONT]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT]
I'm baffled. How on earth could someone 'err' on the side of peace? What is the flaw in that?
It is no longer necessary according to the fact that the old law was done away with and nailed to the stake with Christ. Perhaps you would say that some wars ARE necessary but how do you possibly judge which situations warrant the killing of humans and which ones do not? Who do we trust in that case? How can we be certain that the reasons our national leaders give us for the wars that are fought are the REAL reasons? Since God no longer communicates with us as he did in the Hebrew Scriptures (the bible is now our guide), who gets to determine when the 'brotherly love' of Christians gets thrown to the wayside and 'kill fellow Christians accross the globe' commences? I, for one, will not be faced with such a dilemma.
If there were no wars I am almost sure that the U.S. would now be a communist country and you would not have the right to even practice your religion.
If you say that Christians or anyone should not have stopped Hitler, then America would have been in the hands of Hitler.
If we as a nation allow other countries to kill people, then what is that saying about us? Of course we do allow it, but I don't believe that any country should suffer by being taken over by other countries. And don't come back and tell me that Jehovah is going to take care of that because he isn't. The Jehovah's Witnesses are no better than the Muslims who teach that there's will be the only religion left. JWs do it by killing everyone at the end of the world that don't think like them, and nations do it in the present moment.
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With a Japanese smile.\!!
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