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View Poll Results: How will you react?
Rage, rejection, and disown right away. 3 7.89%
Lecture ,counsel, and punish the child until he or she is straight. 2 5.26%
Remain neutral and pray for the best, but refuse to engage in the GLBT community. 13 34.21%
Support and understand the child's decision and remain accepting of the GLBT people. 20 52.63%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 03-10-2009, 04:48 AM
 
1,577 posts, read 3,701,031 times
Reputation: 536

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I'd build a bridge and get over it.

This is your child. The one you changed, the one you took to practice, the one who played peek-a-boo and wanted to show you their masterpeices that you proudly put on the fridge, the one you took to the playgrund or park, the one you tossed the ball with or taught to swim, the one you went to amusement parks with and laughed with, the one who asked for help on homework, the one that confided in you about thier first crush, the one that asked you what they should wear and for advice on their 1st date or school dance. This is that little kid all grown up.

Deal with it. They are who they are and they will do what they want with or without your blessing. So if you can't control them, you might as well support them. Be that loving parent one more time for them.

 
Old 03-10-2009, 05:08 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,323 posts, read 6,026,409 times
Reputation: 677
Turning the other cheek is a sign of humility. Humility is the touchstone for an entrance into the Celestial Heavens. There are many right ways something can be done. Defending your way, your self, is not always necessary or helpful in attaining harmony. "Live and let live" is a good attitude. Doing things in Love is the greatest solution to every problem/situation. What is it you feel that you need to defend? Your pride? Is someone telling you that you are wrong about something? Maybe that is their opinion, maybe their opinion is in error. But is it worth acting out of harmony with love to prove that you are right?
Walk away, do your own thing the way your love moves you to, but do not confront others for not agreeing with you. Don't you clearly see how turning the other cheek is the only way peace and harmony will be established upon this earth? When you have six billion people standing up for their rights trying to prove they are right and you are wrong, how do you suppose harmony will ever come to pass?
God loves you. You need to accept this and know that you are good and that you can progress and become better, and that even though improvements can be made and are being made, there is no great advantage to standing up to a fellow human being to show that you are good enough, or that what you do or believe is better than what he or she does or believes in. What is that going to prove? How is that going to help establish love and harmony between yourself and your fellow human beings? You are the master of your ship. How you sail her is up to you. But your loving example will be of greater influence on those around you than any kind of self-defense or "standing up for your rights" could ever be.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 05:14 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,323 posts, read 6,026,409 times
Reputation: 677
If we review humanity's history, we find that the topic of homosexuality has been treated in diverse ways. We have knowledge of cultures, where homosexuality was considered normal and enjoyed common acceptance. This can be observed in Roman civilization, at least in the period after the Republic, and in Greece. In the state of Sparta, society even encouraged homosexual relationships among warriors, because this contributed to an increase courage and cooperation in battle, where the couples gave their life for each other.
In contrast, certain societies had a very restrictive attitude against the homosexuality, as we can read in the Bible in the case of the Hebrews, whose law strictly prohibited that sexual practice, under penalty of death. The reason was that reproduction, growth of the tribe, of the people, of the nation, constituted a main factor in people's conscience, and in that time, it was also vital for the community's survival.
Something similar we find in aggressive, war-faring societies, for example in Adolf Hitler's Third Reich, where homosexuality was punished as a human perversion with banishment in concentration camps, or in other words, with slow death. The moral justification was that homosexuals weakened "ethnic health," that is, they didn't contribute to the "production of warriors," who would serve to kill and to die for the well being of the homeland in the future.
During the child's development and also partly during adolescence, sexual preference is developed in a complicated process, still not very well known. This is called sexual fixation or stamp. In a large part of the population, sexual preference aims at the opposite sex, but in certain part it aims at the same sex, or may not be clearly defined, which we call bisexuality. It is difficult to set percentages, but the truth lies between the exaggerated extreme of 10% of the population and the other extreme of 0.3%. If we calculate a percentage of 2 to 3 percent, among homosexuals and bisexuals, we are on safe terrain.
I mention these numbers to point out to you that, although we deal with a phenomenon of minorities, it is a quite big minority, and for that reason it is a topic of common interest.
In the persecution of homosexuality, many times the idea appears that homosexuality is unnatural because it doesn't serve the true purpose of sexuality.
Well, it is true that reproduction is only one aspect of human sexuality, which in fact encompasses much more. But even if we look at the animal kingdom, where sexuality exclusively serves the purpose of reproduction, we can observe that homosexuality does exist. It is a phenomenon, then, that for natural reasons develops in part of the population.
Besides reproduction, sexuality is the expression of love, enjoying jointly, it has the function to attract two people and to keep them together. As everything in life, sexuality can be practiced in harmony with God's laws, that is to say, practiced in love and seriousness, and one may also abuse of it, in the field of heterosexuality as well as in that of homosexuality. One example would be the great promiscuity that certainly is out of harmony, degenerating sexuality to pure desire for enjoying without giving love, and this bears serious consequences.
Homosexuality, therefore, is a behavior, which develops in certain part of the population by a process of sexual fixation that one may observe in all social classes, in all societies, even in the animal kingdom. It is an inclination that doesn't constitute the norm, because only a minority is affected, but it is not unnatural and can be practiced in harmony with God's laws, in the same way as heterosexuality. It is necessary to say that there is no reason whatsoever for prejudices and discriminations, and that it is humanity's obligation to accept and to love homosexual people as any other person.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 06:07 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,391,265 times
Reputation: 4113
Reverend1111,

We actually DO know quite a bit about sexual orientation and it's causes. Freud's idea of sexual fixation in childhood causing homosexuality is rather dated. Scientists have come a long way in understanding human sexuality since the 1950's.

Today, if someone talks about sexual fixations, they mean paraphilias (fetishes), NOT sexual orientation like heterosexuality, bi-sexuality or homosexuality.

From what I understand most scientists now believe the main factors involved in sexual orientation are a combination of being genetically pre-disposed, plus pre-natal hormonal differences.

If you are interested in reading about recent research, here's a link to a list of studies (up to 2004) on sexual orientation by reputable scientists:

Is It a Choice? The Science of Sexual Orientation (http://www.libertyeducationforum.org/IsItaChoiceTheScienceofSexualOrientation.htm - broken link)

And here’s just a few of the conclusions from the more recent studies in the last 5 years:

Quote:
Mustanski, B. S.; DuPree, M. G.; Nievergelt, C. M.; Bocklandt, S.; Schork, N. J.; Hamer, D. H. “A genomewide scan of male sexual orientation.” Human Genetics 116: 272-278, 2005

Mustanski concluded that: "There's a converging line of evidence between the hormonal studies, the genetic studies, and the neuroanatomical studies. My research has identified candidate genes within these new chromosomal regions that could link together all of these different findings”
Quote:
Swaab DF (2007) Sexual differentiation of the brain
and behavior. Best Pract Res Clin Endocrinol Metab 21:431–444.

Current evidence indicates that sexual differentiation of the human brain occurs during fetal and neonatal development and programs our gender identity— our feeling of being male or female and our sexual orientation as hetero-, homo-, or bisexual. This sexual differentiation process is accompanied by many structural and functional brain differences among these groups.
Quote:
(2008) Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.
The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy, says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden

Gay brains structured like those of the opposite sex - life - 16 June 2008 - New Scientist
 
Old 03-10-2009, 06:18 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,391,265 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
"...likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working *that which is unseemly..."

*unseemly #808. aschemosune as-kay-mos-oo'-nay from 809; an indecency; by implication, the *pudenda:--shame, that which is unseemly.

*pudenda The American Heritage College Dictionary: pudendum/ pl. pudenda n. "The human external genital organs, especially of a woman" (p. 1127).


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,


Rom. 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, (sodomy)
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators [Gk: paramours], nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate *[Gk: catamites], nor abusers of themselves with mankind [Gk: sodomites] nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God" (I Cor. 6:9-10).


*–catamite=a boy or youth who is in a sexual relationship with a man.
But these verses are NOT referring to homosexuality, especially not as a sexual orientation.

Are you aware of the context of what Paul was writing about in those verses? The Romans 1:26 verse was aimed at Christians who had reverted back to Paganism and got involved with idolatrous sexual practices in pagan temples.

As for Corinthians 6:9, you might also want to look up what other translators have to say about Paul's use of the Greek words malakoi and arsenokoitai. Paul did NOT use the Greek words that would have commonly been used to describe homosexuals at that time.
Prior to being used to condemn homosexuals, that verse used to be used to condemn masturbators.

Maybe someday when homosexuality is generally understood and accepted by even the most close-minded of conservative Christians, this verse will be interpreted to condemn some "other" group conservative Christians don't like. Perhaps people who crack their boiled eggs open at the large end instead of the small end?
 
Old 03-10-2009, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,865,771 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
Heterosexuals don't have those thoughts. I have many straight male friends and none of them have passing thoughts about being with a man or felt the need to pray or get help over it or tell their wives about struggles with thinking about men. If you've been battling it for this long, whether you've acted out on it or not, you're gay. A car is still a car whether it gets driven or not.
How long have you been a mind reader? You realize people don't always tell the truth, especially about controversial topics...

Gay is a choice, just like any other sin. One chooses to give in to temptations that are unseemly, or they choose to overcome.

Going about endorsing sin as God given, i believe goes into the Blasphemy category.


godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 03-10-2009, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
6,205 posts, read 12,865,771 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend1111 View Post
If we review humanity's history, we find that the topic of homosexuality has been treated in diverse ways. We have knowledge of cultures, where homosexuality was considered normal and enjoyed common acceptance. This can be observed in Roman civilization, at least in the period after the Republic, and in Greece. In the state of Sparta, society even encouraged homosexual relationships among warriors, because this contributed to an increase courage and cooperation in battle, where the couples gave their life for each other.
In contrast, certain societies had a very restrictive attitude against the homosexuality, as we can read in the Bible in the case of the Hebrews, whose law strictly prohibited that sexual practice, under penalty of death. The reason was that reproduction, growth of the tribe, of the people, of the nation, constituted a main factor in people's conscience, and in that time, it was also vital for the community's survival.
Something similar we find in aggressive, war-faring societies, for example in Adolf Hitler's Third Reich, where homosexuality was punished as a human perversion with banishment in concentration camps, or in other words, with slow death. The moral justification was that homosexuals weakened "ethnic health," that is, they didn't contribute to the "production of warriors," who would serve to kill and to die for the well being of the homeland in the future.
During the child's development and also partly during adolescence, sexual preference is developed in a complicated process, still not very well known. This is called sexual fixation or stamp. In a large part of the population, sexual preference aims at the opposite sex, but in certain part it aims at the same sex, or may not be clearly defined, which we call bisexuality. It is difficult to set percentages, but the truth lies between the exaggerated extreme of 10% of the population and the other extreme of 0.3%. If we calculate a percentage of 2 to 3 percent, among homosexuals and bisexuals, we are on safe terrain.
I mention these numbers to point out to you that, although we deal with a phenomenon of minorities, it is a quite big minority, and for that reason it is a topic of common interest.
In the persecution of homosexuality, many times the idea appears that homosexuality is unnatural because it doesn't serve the true purpose of sexuality.
Well, it is true that reproduction is only one aspect of human sexuality, which in fact encompasses much more. But even if we look at the animal kingdom, where sexuality exclusively serves the purpose of reproduction, we can observe that homosexuality does exist. It is a phenomenon, then, that for natural reasons develops in part of the population.
Besides reproduction, sexuality is the expression of love, enjoying jointly, it has the function to attract two people and to keep them together. As everything in life, sexuality can be practiced in harmony with God's laws, that is to say, practiced in love and seriousness, and one may also abuse of it, in the field of heterosexuality as well as in that of homosexuality. One example would be the great promiscuity that certainly is out of harmony, degenerating sexuality to pure desire for enjoying without giving love, and this bears serious consequences.
Homosexuality, therefore, is a behavior, which develops in certain part of the population by a process of sexual fixation that one may observe in all social classes, in all societies, even in the animal kingdom. It is an inclination that doesn't constitute the norm, because only a minority is affected, but it is not unnatural and can be practiced in harmony with God's laws, in the same way as heterosexuality. It is necessary to say that there is no reason whatsoever for prejudices and discriminations, and that it is humanity's obligation to accept and to love homosexual people as any other person.
Or they could be caged and retrained, just like animals are....

Comparing Humans to Animals in order to justify behavior is rediculous.

homo-sex among animals is not the first choice, it is observed when no other option is available, and rarely penitrating.

godspeed,

freedom
 
Old 03-10-2009, 06:58 AM
 
17,842 posts, read 14,391,265 times
Reputation: 4113
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Well, that's a cute little interpretation and opinion you have there, but you don't know what God believes or condones.

My parents told me they felt like I had died when I told them I was gay. They're simple, uneducated Christian Fundamentalists and there's no having a rational discussion with them about religion. There are only two options with my parents - believe exactly as them, or go to hell.

Needless to say, we don't have a good relationship. I haven't seen them in several years, and no longer love them. I could care less what they think of me. They've said cruel things to me in the past and I don't need that type of thing in my life. I have my own family and have moved on.

I just find it ironic that these people who claim to be all for "family values" are the first ones to throw a gay child under the bus.
My step-daugher's grandmother is a fundmentalist Christian from the Bible Belt (with a 6th grade education). My step-daughter jokingly told her grandmother when she was about 16 that she was going to marry her best friend who is female. (She's completely straight by the way, as are our two other teenage daughters) Her grandmother told her she would never talk to her again if she did that. And this is her favourite grand-daughter.

What's also sad, is that this woman's youngest son is gay, and she hasn't got a clue because he rarely sees her anymore and tells her nothing about his 10 year relationship with another man. She just thinks he is single and hasn't married because he hasn't met the right woman.

It's really sad...and so very unnecessary.

This woman also single handedly turned all her children and her grand-children completely against religion because of her judgemental, ignorant, mean-spirited, tyrannical and just plain nasty ways...all the while professing to be a devout born-again Christian.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,837,906 times
Reputation: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
Heterosexuals don't have those thoughts. I have many straight male friends and none of them have passing thoughts about being with a man or felt the need to pray or get help over it or tell their wives about struggles with thinking about men. If you've been battling it for this long, whether you've acted out on it or not, you're gay. A car is still a car whether it gets driven or not.
None of them will admit to it. I am not my sin, I will believe the Bible before I will believe you. You are gay and just want to be right. I have lived my life, all 40 years of it, and I know myself pretty well. I am a straight man because I choose to be a straight man. I made up my mind a long time ago to be a straight man and I have lived a straight life. Just because I have the urge to kill someone does not mean I am a murderer. Just because I want to steal something doesnt make me a theaf. I choose to resist these things just as I have chosen to resist homosexuality.
 
Old 03-10-2009, 08:05 AM
 
11,155 posts, read 15,711,259 times
Reputation: 4209
The good news in all this is already written in history.

When the founding fathers established this country, there was great pressure from the fundamentalists of their day to build a Christian nation. Thomas Jefferson was exasperated by it, venting in a letter to a colleague "Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law." And, despite the pressure, wisdom overcame and built a brilliant political system that allowed Christianity and all religions to thrive within but not as the common law.

Mark Twain wrote with great frustration how the fundamentalists of his day would throw Bible quote after Bible quote in defense of slavery. They truly believed it was a practiced ordained by God. Yet wisdom overcame and we stepped closer to the perfect union in love and freedom that is God.

In the early 1900s Bible quotes were used to subjugate women as second class citizens, yet they rose up en mass and claimed their God-given rights.

We shall overcome this bigotry against homosexuals that shatters lives and families. It seems the hand of God continues to guide not those who shout his name the loudest but those who carry his wisdom the deepest toward creating a more perfect union. It is only a matter of time.
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