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You have not proven a thing, but only made yourself look even more uneducated.
Paul is praying, none other and the focus of this debate is not who is being prayed for, it is what God wants/desires/will, so please, quit deflecting. You still can't address the "will" part can you?
Here, let me help you:
In the Old Testament the word chiefly rendered "to will" is 'abhah, "to breathe after," "to long for." With the exception of Job 39:9; Isa 1:19; it is accompanied by a negation, and is used of both man and God. Several other words are employed, but only sparsely. "Will" as noun is the translation chiefly of ratson, "good-will," "willfulness" (Gen 49:6), with emphasis on the voluntariness of action (Lev 1:3; 19:5; 22:19,29 etc.); also of nephesh, and a few other words.
In the New Testament "will" is chiefly the translation of thelo and boulomai, the difference between the two being that thelo expresses an active choice or purpose, boulomai, "passive inclination or willingness, or the inward predisposition from which the active choice proceeds" (compare Mark 15:9,12 with 15:15).
In 1 Tim 2:4, it is the active wish that is being implied, not the divine will and counsel of God, but His desires solely. Take Matt 23:37 for example:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted (thelo) to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing (thelo)!”
"Will," noun, is thelema. With the exception of a few passages, it is used of the will of God (over all, Mat 18:14; in all things to be done, Matt 6:10; 26:42 parallel, etc.; ordering all things, Eph 1:11, etc.); human will, however, may oppose itself to the will of God (Luke 23:25; Jhn 1:13; Rom 7:18; here the capacity to will is distinguished from the power to do, etc.). Boulema is properly counsel or purpose. While it is possible to oppose the will of God, His counsel or purpose cannot be frustrated (Atcs 2:23; 4:28; Rom 9:19; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17); it may, however, be resisted for a time (Luke 7:30).
Got that student? I am gone for a week and a half and the UR paradigm has swept the truth under their rug once again.
Get used to it Eusebius, I am here to stay.
You have not proven a thing, but only made yourself look even more uneducated.
Paul is praying, none other and the focus of this debate is not who is being prayed for, it is what God wants/desires/will, so please, quit deflecting. You still can't address the "will" part can you?
Here, let me help you:
In the Old Testament the word chiefly rendered "to will" is 'abhah, "to breathe after," "to long for." With the exception of Job 39:9; Isa 1:19; it is accompanied by a negation, and is used of both man and God. Several other words are employed, but only sparsely. "Will" as noun is the translation chiefly of ratson, "good-will," "willfulness" (Gen 49:6), with emphasis on the voluntariness of action (Lev 1:3; 19:5; 22:19,29 etc.); also of nephesh, and a few other words.
In the New Testament "will" is chiefly the translation of thelo and boulomai, the difference between the two being that thelo expresses an active choice or purpose, boulomai, "passive inclination or willingness, or the inward predisposition from which the active choice proceeds" (compare Mark 15:9,12 with 15:15).
In 1 Tim 2:4, it is the active wish that is being implied, not the divine will and counsel of God, but His desires solely. Take Matt 23:37 for example:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted (thelo) to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing (thelo)!”
"Will," noun, is thelema. With the exception of a few passages, it is used of the will of God (over all, Mat 18:14; in all things to be done, Matt 6:10; 26:42 parallel, etc.; ordering all things, Eph 1:11, etc.); human will, however, may oppose itself to the will of God (Luke 23:25; Jhn 1:13; Rom 7:18; here the capacity to will is distinguished from the power to do, etc.). Boulema is properly counsel or purpose. While it is possible to oppose the will of God, His counsel or purpose cannot be frustrated (Atcs 2:23; 4:28; Rom 9:19; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17); it may, however, be resisted for a time (Luke 7:30).
Got that student? I am gone for a week and a half and the UR paradigm has swept the truth under their rug once again.
Get used to it Eusebius, I am here to stay.
LOL, I am reminded of the scribes when I see junk like this. Do you know the language, or the tongue? IOW, can you read it, or can you SEE and HEAR it?
You have not proven a thing, but only made yourself look even more uneducated.
Paul is praying, none other and the focus of this debate is not who is being prayed for, it is what God wants/desires/will, so please, quit deflecting.
1Ti 2:1-2 I am entreating, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers,
pleadings, thanksgiving be made for all mankind, (2) for kings and all
those being in a superior station, that we may be leading a mild and quiet
life in all devoutness and gravity,
I'm sure Paul always petitioned God prayed to God, pleaded with God and
thanked God for all mankind, for kings and all in authority. And so here
Paul is entreating the brethren to do the same thing. The very same "all
mankind" we are to petition God for, the same all mankind we are to pray
(lit. "toward well have") to God for, the same all mankind we are to plead
with God for, the same all mankind we are to thank God for is the same all
mankind that God will save for Christ ransomed all mankind. It is germain
to the argument.
Quote:
sciotamicks wrote: You still can't address the "will" part can you?
Of course I can and did. Just because you didn't like what I wrote does not mean I didn't address it. Look back over my past posts posited and propounded thus proficiently pounding your poorly planned and I might add pompous and pontificated posts to smithereens.
Quote:
sciotamicks wrote:
Here, let me help you:
In the Old Testament the word chiefly rendered "to will" is 'abhah, "to breathe after," "to long for." With the exception of Job 39:9; Isa 1:19; it is accompanied by a negation, and is used of both man and God. Several other words are employed, but only sparsely. "Will" as noun is the translation chiefly of ratson, "good-will," "willfulness" (Gen 49:6), with emphasis on the voluntariness of action (Lev 1:3; 19:5; 22:19,29 etc.); also of nephesh, and a few other words.
You tried to make us think you thought that part up because you did not quote it nor did you give proper credit to whom credit was due. To whit, you plagiarized it.
Quote:
sciotamicks plageurized:
In the New Testament "will" is chiefly the translation of thelo and boulomai, the difference between the two being that thelo expresses an active choice or purpose, boulomai, "passive inclination or willingness, or the inward predisposition from which the active choice proceeds" (compare Mark 15:9,12 with 15:15). [/quote]
You tried to make us think you thought that part up because you did not quote it nor did you give proper credit to whom credit was due. To whit, you plagiarized it.
As to what you plagiarized above, let me quote this and I will give the source for it at the end concering 1 Timothy 2:4-6:
"WISH" OR "WILL"
"It is strange how words change their meanings when they touch this great
truth. It is still stranger how God degenerates into a pitiful puppet Who
"wishes" that all men should be saved, but is so sorry that He really can
not do it! He has the heart but His arm is too short, His hand is paralyzed,
and His head is too empty. There is a Greek word for wish, but it is euchomai, not theloo (Acts 27:29; Rom.9:3; 2 Cor.13:9; 3 John 2). Boulomai signifies counsel, intention, not determination. Theloo is the only
Greek term for will in the Scriptures. The Authorized Version renders it will
over sixty times, and only twice has it otherwise. The CONCORDANT
VERSION always has it will. But now, to make God an impotent imbecile,
an amiable weakling, a disappointed dolt, in this passage, it must be
changed to wish! May God be gracious to the man who dares to say that He wishes to do what He cannot perform! What can be a more direct
denial that He is God?" (A.E. Knoch, Unsearchable Riches, vol.24, p.42).
Quote:
In 1 Tim 2:4, it is the active wish that is being implied, not the divine will and counsel of God, but His desires solely. Take Matt 23:37 for example:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted (thelo) to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing (thelo)!”
That was Jesus' will. In the garden Jesus said "not My will but Thine be done" and it was. And humans don't always get what they thelo. Sorry oh great plagiarist, but you can't take a verse where "thelo" is used in a relative sense and import it into a verse where it is used in the absolute sense. Likewise you cannot (well, I'm sure you do but you shouldn't) import the word "ta panta (the all) where it is used relatively into a passage such as Colossians 1:15-20 where it is used absolutely of all.
Quote:
"Will," noun, is thelema. With the exception of a few passages, it is used of the will of God (over all, Mat 18:14
Quote:
; in all things to be done, Matt 6:10; 26:42 parallel, etc.; ordering all things, Eph 1:11, etc.); human will, however, may oppose itself to the will of God (Luke 23:25; Jhn 1:13; Rom 7:18; here the capacity to will is distinguished from the power to do, etc.). Boulema is properly counsel or purpose. While it is possible to oppose the will of God, His counsel or purpose cannot be frustrated (Atcs 2:23; 4:28; Rom 9:19; Eph 1:11; Heb 6:17); it may, however, be resisted for a time (Luke 7:30).
You tried to make us think you thought that part up because you did not quote it nor did you give proper credit to whom credit was due. To whit, you plagiarized it.
As to what you plagiarized above, let me say this as to some of the passages you plagiarized above to try to make us think you were oh so smart:
Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will (thelema) be done, as in heaven, on earth also."
God does what He will (thelema) in the armies of the heavens and all dwellin gon the earth:
Dan 4:35 All abiding on the earth are reckoned as naught: According to His
will (LXX: thelema) is He doing in the army of the heavens and with those abiding on the
earth. And no one can stay His hand and say to Him, "What
doest Thou?
So His will is being done on earth as it is in heaven.
"When Christ entered the world, He said, "Lo! I am arriving...to do Thy will,
O God" (Heb.10:7). He taught His disciples to pray, "Thy will be
done" (Matt.6:10). His spiritual food was todo the will of Him Who had
sent Him (John 4:34). Nevertheless, again and again, He speaks of His
own will." (A.E. Knoch Unsearchable Riches vol.89, p.103).
Do you now admit that God did not have His will done by Christ and that God does not do that which He wills in the armies of the heavens and with those abiding on the earth? Oh dear!
Quote:
Got that student?
I got that you are an uneducated plagiarist.
Quote:
I am gone for a week and a half and the UR paradigm has swept the truth under their rug once again.
Get used to it Eusebius, I am here to stay.
That's quite a conumdrum . . . "you'll be gone for a week and a half yet you are here to stay." Are you like God now where you are in more than one place at the same time?
sciotamicks, why is it that God will have all mankind to be saved just as God does His will in the armies of the heavens and with those abiding on the earth and none can stay His hand? It is because Christ ransomed all mankind.
Wrap that brain God gave you around that for a while. Let it change you. Don't you change it.
Last edited by Eusebius; 02-28-2010 at 02:36 PM..
Reason: didn't use proper quote tags
Who cares if I used a study from another site...and secondly...that isn't the site I used LOL...research further. Is that all you have got on me? Try....Reign of Christ...a good friend of mine runs, who most likely knew Mr Walker who runs your searched out site, who got it from someone else, and on and on starting with a Lexicon....oh but wait...do you know what that is?....you can ask him if it was alright LOL...you are a real piece of work.
It's called research.....you should try it sometime.
Quote:
Do you now admit that God did not have His will done by Christ and that God does not do that which He wills in the armies of the heavens and with those abiding on the earth? Oh dear!
And secondly...Thelo is the word used in 1 Tim 2:4
Here are my sources for the simple post I threw up for you to ponder on:
Sam Frost
Fourpoint Square church sermons
William Bell
Lorraine Day
David Duncan
Duncan Mckenzie
Matthew Henry
And the list goes on......
You see Eusebius, I don't have to source everyone, when it is called research, unless I am making money off of it, then I do have to credit and source. Study some Copyright Law 101 and you will see this, but should have I expected that from you? I guess not.
Last edited by sciotamicks; 02-28-2010 at 03:04 PM..
Reason: sp
That movie had nothing to do with earning our way into heaven......I used it to visualize a point, that God can't or won't MAKE us love him. We have to choose him. While He wants all to be saved, he can't/won't make us go to him He gave us free will. Free will to choose him.
Where in scripture does it say that he gave us free will?...
It's our nature to sin, not to hate him. We're made in the image of God. I don't think we hate ourselves. I choose God freely because God gave me freewilll to choose him. Because if we're forced to love him, then it is no love at all.
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