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God is the Savior of all, especially those that believe
Yes,let`s just read what God said right here and believe it. Like you said,no need to interpret it,just believe it. Welcome to the good news. Welcome to God`s good news of reconciliation for all of his creation. I`m glad God`s message is finally getting through....FINAL ANSWER!
Yes,let`s just read what God said right here and believe it. Like you said,no need to interpret it,just believe it. Welcome to the good news. Welcome to God`s good news of reconciliation for all of his creation. I`m glad God`s message is finally getting through....FINAL ANSWER!
Yes,let`s just read what God said right here and believe it. Like you said,no need to interpret it,just believe it. Welcome to the good news. Welcome to God`s good news of reconciliation for all of his creation. I`m glad God`s message is finally getting through....FINAL ANSWER!
Did I say the gates were not open...they are only closed for those that don't believe. You are mincing my words into the paradigm you support.
That is what the text "strictly" says.
This is what the text "strictly" says:
Revelation 21:25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
The gates are NEVER closed. Think of the city lit up by spotlight (the Lord God). Outside the gates is darkness, inside is light.. but the gates are always open. The gates are never closed.
You stated "they are only closed for those that don't believe."
"will never be" (οὐ μὴ) a double negative strengthening the denial; not at all -- any more, at all, by any (no) means, neither, never, no (at all), in no case (wise), nor ever, not (at all, in any wise).
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Who is limiting God here, me or you. I say he can manifest into Jesus, you say He cannot...seems to me you are the one doing the limiting.
Yet you say he cannot make a sinner sinless against the sinner's will?
I believe God can do anything yet he did not manifest bodily as Jesus.
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That was already completed with the Parousia. When i confess with my mouth that he is Lord and accept Christ as my savior, whom they regenerated me into the faith via the means of the gospel, then yes, I am washed.
All this you have to do for a free gift? You think God needs someone to confess, accept, be regenerated, and washed before he gives them the free gift? Even if they don't want it? Do you think God could give someone a free gift whether they liked it or not?
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Circular reasoning here. You answered your own question. We are talking about the unrepentant sinner, not the repentant sinner.
I am talking about the unrepentant sinner. All man at one time is an unrepentant sinner. Do you deny that you were an unrepentant sinner? Who is it that cleaned you? Did you do anything to deserve it?
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This is the issue here. Christ died for all mankind. God desires that all mankind be saved.
True
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Have they all been saved from past to now? No.
What proof do you have about anyone being saved or not being saved? Isn't that a personal relationship that you nor anyone else can truly know?
You are simply judging the outside, but God judges the inside.
Tsk. Tsk.
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Will it happen in the future? Maybe, we can't say, all we have is the word to live by, but the text is strict, some are in, some are not. That is what you have to go by. Developing doctrine that isn't in the text dealing with the soul of mankind is just not there. This is about all mankind alive, not mankind after death.
The text is strict? You mean like "the gate that never closes" is closed for people that don't do your list of things?
Can you show me this strict text that states some are in and some are not unless they do this list of things?
Sometimes I wonder if people have very specific people in mind when they talk about the gates being closed, and that God will not save all. Who can't they love? If you are to love your neighbor as yourself and you believe some of your neighbors are going to be rubbed out forever or worse tortured forever... how can it even be called the "good news"???
Unless God is schizophrenic. Which we know that HE is not.
Therefore... there must be some folks hidden down deep in a person's heart that they just cannot LOVE. I wonder who these people are?
Sitting outside of some closed gate... do you know why you think that GOD will turn HIS back on them? Brother or sister, maybe it is because YOU have turned YOUR back on them.
Thankfully... God's love isn't as weak and impotent as mankind's love. When God expands the love in your heart, you finally begin to understand WHY there is NO-ONE who will be "left behind". You FINALLY begin to understand the verse... "Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL mankind, especially those who believe."
God's plan is not 75% perfect. It's not 99% perfect. It is 100% PERFECT.
Would we REALLY expect anything less from the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE? I think not.
Sometimes I wonder if people have very specific people in mind when they talk about the gates being closed, and that God will not save all. Who can't they love? If you are to love your neighbor as yourself and you believe some of your neighbors are going to be rubbed out forever or worse tortured forever... how can it even be called the "good news"???
Unless God is schizophrenic. Which we know that HE is not.
Therefore... there must be some folks hidden down deep in a person's heart that they just cannot LOVE. I wonder who these people are?
Sitting outside of some closed gate... do you know why you think that GOD will turn HIS back on them? Brother or sister, maybe it is because YOU have turned YOUR back on them.
Thankfully... God's love isn't as weak and impotent as mankind's love. When God expands the love in your heart, you finally begin to understand WHY there is NO-ONE who will be "left behind". You FINALLY begin to understand the verse... "Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL mankind, especially those who believe."
God's plan is not 75% perfect. It's not 99% perfect. It is 100% PERFECT.
Would we REALLY expect anything less from the CREATOR of the UNIVERSE? I think not.
Revelation 21:25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
The gates are NEVER closed. Think of the city lit up by spotlight (the Lord God). Outside the gates is darkness, inside is light.. but the gates are always open. The gates are never closed.
You stated "they are only closed for those that don't believe."
"will never be" (οὐ μὴ) a double negative strengthening the denial; not at all -- any more, at all, by any (no) means, neither, never, no (at all), in no case (wise), nor ever, not (at all, in any wise).
Yet you say he cannot make a sinner sinless against the sinner's will?
I believe God can do anything yet he did not manifest bodily as Jesus.
All this you have to do for a free gift? You think God needs someone to confess, accept, be regenerated, and washed before he gives them the free gift? Even if they don't want it? Do you think God could give someone a free gift whether they liked it or not?
I am talking about the unrepentant sinner. All man at one time is an unrepentant sinner. Do you deny that you were an unrepentant sinner? Who is it that cleaned you? Did you do anything to deserve it?
True
What proof do you have about anyone being saved or not being saved? Isn't that a personal relationship that you nor anyone else can truly know?
You are simply judging the outside, but God judges the inside.
Tsk. Tsk.
The text is strict? You mean like "the gate that never closes" is closed for people that don't do your list of things?
Can you show me this strict text that states some are in and some are not unless they do this list of things?
You are on a roll tonight Kat! System won't let me rep you though...
Indeed, the gates NEVER close. Yet for some reason Sciota doesn't see he is adding to the text "they are closed for those who don't believe".
Look again what the text says explicitly:
Rev 21:24 The nations will walk in its light, and the kings of the world will enter the city in all their glory.
25 Its gates will never be closed at the end of day because there is no night there.
26 And all the nations will bring their glory and honor into the city.
27 Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Nothing evil or impure will enter the city. Nor those who practice idolatry, dishonesty, etc. However notice here it is speaking present tense. If no one who had ever lied (past tense) was allowed to enter, no one would be allowed in at all, because we have all lied. Now it is true if you continue to practice lying, practice sinning, you will never enter. But if you repent, you can enter! This is speaking of repentance. If you repent and change your heart, you are no longer impure and evil, you have become pure and you are allowed in the gates (because they never close!).
But how does one repent? Only God can lead one to repent through Jesus! That is what the book of life is: it is Jesus himself. When God leads you to repent, you have a change of heart, no longer desire to sin, and are now in the Lamb's book of life. You will enter through the gates if God leads you to repent.
Now since God desires all to be saved, don't you think He desires all to repent, and therefore will lead all to repent? Its God's kindness that leads a man to repent (Romans 2:4), and God shows his kindness and love to all humanity.
You are on a roll tonight Kat! System won't let me rep you though...
Indeed, the gates NEVER close. Yet for some reason Sciota doesn't see he is adding to the text "they are closed for those who don't believe".
Look again what the text says explicitly:
Rev 21:24 The nations will walk in its light, and the kings of the world will enter the city in all their glory.
25 Its gates will never be closed at the end of day because there is no night there.
26 And all the nations will bring their glory and honor into the city.
27 Nothing evil will be allowed to enter, nor anyone who practices shameful idolatry and dishonesty—but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Nothing evil or impure will enter the city. Nor those who practice idolatry, dishonesty, etc. However notice here it is speaking present tense. If no one who had ever lied (past tense) was allowed to enter, no one would be allowed in at all, because we have all lied. Now it is true if you continue to practice lying, practice sinning, you will never enter. But if you repent, you can enter! This is speaking of repentance. If you repent and change your heart, you are no longer impure and evil, you have become pure and you are allowed in the gates (because they never close!).
But how does one repent? Only God can lead one to repent through Jesus! That is what the book of life is: it is Jesus himself. When God leads you to repent, you have a change of heart, no longer desire to sin, and are now in the Lamb's book of life. You will enter through the gates if God leads you to repent.
Now since God desires all to be saved, don't you think He desires all to repent, and therefore will lead all to repent? Its God's kindness that leads a man to repent (Romans 2:4), and God shows his kindness and love to all humanity.
Yes! that is why Jesus states
John 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
John 3:19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.
2 Peter 1:19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.
All of this is spiritual. There is no limit to the amount of people who enter into the light from the darkness. Jesus is the lamp who lights our way in the darkness. God is the light of day in the kingdom.
So sciotamicks, back to the question: When are you going to start being obedient to 1 Timothy 4:11 as it pertains to charging and teaching that God not only will save all mankind (1 Tim.2:4-6) based upon Christ ransoming all mankind, but is in fact all mankind's Saviour even if they don't realize it yet (1 Tim.4:10).
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks
When are you going to start being obedient to the fact that anthropos and psychē/pneuma are two different state of beings?
How can one be "obedient to a fact"? psuche and pneuma have nothing to do with being obedient to charge and teach that "God will save all mankind" and "God is the Saviour of all mankind."
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Also, where in scripture does it specifically say, that after death, a soul will be saved, even if that soul, in its flesh state while being alive prior to death, did not accept the gospel as their faith?
Again, that is a side issue not relevant to the topic at hand. The charge is to teach that "God will save all mankind" and that "God is the Saviour of all mankind" (1 Tim.2:4-6; 4:10,11). The charge is not "to teach that there is no salvation after death."
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Do you believe that the most evil, vile, godless, blasphemous atheistic sinful enemies of Jesus would have the same eternal fate as the most godly, loving, selfless and persecuted Jesus lover who ever lived?
Well, ghee, that is what we are supposed to charge and teach! "God will save all mankind" not just "the most godly, loving, selfless and persecuted Jesus lover who ever lived"
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I would very much like it if you answered those two questions, the first with scripture, and the second with either a "yes" or a "no".
And I would very much like it if you would tell me why you believe it is more important to be disobedient to your Lord by charging and teaching that "God will NOT save all mankind" and that "God is NOT the saviour of all mankind."
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Thanks and God bless.
Don't God bless me or thank me while you are in the state of disobedience. I don't need the hypocrisy.
Well now didn't this thread just die a cruel death!
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I think not.
