If You Don't Believe God is Going to Save All Mankind . . . (Revelation, Kingdom)
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Finally a preterist I can agree with!! I'm all for spreading the good news but this forum seems to be more about agendas than Jesus Christ. Wouldn't it be great if we could all agree on just talking about Him (after all, He loves that) rather than all this bickering?
What do you think he loves more:
Bickering?
or
Spreading to the world that he tortures a creation he supposedly loves?
When you tell someone they must believe or be tortured forever... aren't you really putting a stumbling block in their way to believing that God loves them unconditionally? Aren't you really teaching them that God is just like us and not a fair, impartial, loving God?
To me the bickering comes from the ETers who claim a God I do not recognize.
Finally a preterist I can agree with!! I'm all for spreading the good news but this forum seems to be more about agendas than Jesus Christ. Wouldn't it be great if we could all agree on just talking about Him (after all, He loves that) rather than all this bickering?
Finally I agree with Ilene!
O magnify the LORD with me, and let us exalt his name together. (Psa 34:3)
In keeping our eyes on Him, we are then led in our faith to see Him as He is - incredibly important for us as believers, and important to our world (for as the Body goes, so goes the rest of creation, imo).
I saw that movie at the theatre when it came out.....what a nutjob!! So you think it's okay to murder as long as you're claiming to be a Christian? What a twisted train of thought.
That's quite a leap you've taken from the men from the Bible you named and claiming that EVERYONE is going to be saved, dear one. First and most importantly, THOSE MEN REPENTED. Yes, even a murderer can go to heaven if what is in their heart is pure and they have repented and asked for forgiveness. But to say anyone can commit any sin, doesn't matter, going to be saved anyway is heresy at it's greatest and most deceptive.
It's not ok to murder, it's not ok to sin, it's not ok to say that it is ok!! Christ died for our sins, but we cannot continue in those sins....we must repent and never do it again! If we don't and God knows our heart is impure and insincere, then we die in our sins and go to a burning, fiery eternal hell. It is what it is, and that's what the Bible says, like it or not.
Well it is certainly what Ilene Wright says that the bible says. And were it not for the fact i know what the original Greek and Hebrew says about judgment, i would have to agree with you. Of course i do know what the original Greek and Hebrew have to say, and so i can firmly denounce your assertions of an eternal literal fiery torture pit known by misanthropic "Christians" around the world as hell.
Must you put words into my mouth in order to debunk me? I can see from the above post that you must. I never said it is okay to sin, but it is impossible not to ... We can resist the devil, and we can also overcome sin through Christ, but it is nevertheless always immediately present in our flesh. David committed murder after he believed and is saved. David committed many sins after he believed and he is saved. So did Solomon and so does every Christian, many just live in denial and believe they have no sin. You sin every time you imagine someone being tormented in hell and believe that it is justice. It is malicious and hateful, but you cant see that can you? Most people are blind to their own sin, especially so called Christians. I only teach what i was commanded to teach, and that is God is the savior of all people especially (not only) believers.
So sciotamicks, back to the question: When are you going to start being obedient to 1 Timothy 4:11 as it pertains to charging and teaching that God not only will save all mankind (1 Tim.2:4-6) based upon Christ ransoming all mankind, but is in fact all mankind's Saviour even if they don't realize it yet (1 Tim.4:10).
When are you going to start being obedient to the fact that anthropos and psychē/pneuma are two different state of beings?
Also, where in scripture does it specifically say, that after death, a soul will be saved, even if that soul, in its flesh state while being alive prior to death, did not accept the gospel as their faith?
Do you believe that the most evil, vile, godless, blasphemous atheistic sinful enemies of Jesus would have the same eternal fate as the most godly, loving, selfless and persecuted Jesus lover who ever lived?
I would very much like it if you answered those two questions, the first with scripture, and the second with either a "yes" or a "no".
Every time you post I wonder how you miss that the gates of heaven are open day and night... What does that mean to you?
Why is it that you limit God? If he is in control (and we both agree that he is) then why do you suppose that a human's will can thwart his desire to save all men? Wouldn't God be able to wash you before heaven without your permission? Do we ask children if they want to be clean or do we just grab them and stick them in the bath?
We are the children and God is the father.. if he wants us cleansed then he will cleanse us... right? If no sinner is allowed in heaven and all men are sinners.. then who does the cleaning? The sinner?
Every time you post I wonder how you miss that the gates of heaven are open day and night... What does that mean to you?
Did I say the gates were not open...they are only closed for those that don't believe. You are mincing my words into the paradigm you support.
That is what the text "strictly" says.
Quote:
Why is it that you limit God? If he is in control (and we both agree that he is) then why do you suppose that a human's will can thwart his desire to save all men?
Who is limiting God here, me or you. I say he can manifest into Jesus, you say He cannot...seems to me you are the one doing the limiting.
Quote:
Wouldn't God be able to wash you before heaven without your permission?
That was already completed with the Parousia. When i confess with my mouth that he is Lord and accept Christ as my savior, whom they regenerated me into the faith via the means of the gospel, then yes, I am washed.
Quote:
We are the children and God is the father.. if he wants us cleansed then he will cleanse us... right? If no sinner is allowed in heaven and all men are sinners.. then who does the cleaning? The sinner?
Circular reasoning here. You answered your own question. We are talking about the unrepentant sinner, not the repentant sinner.
This is the issue here. Christ died for all mankind. God desires that all mankind be saved. Have they all been saved from past to now? No.
Will it happen in the future? Maybe, we can't say, all we have is the word to live by, but the text is strict, some are in, some are not. That is what you have to go by. Developing doctrine that isn't in the text dealing with the soul of mankind is just not there. This is about all mankind alive, not mankind after death.
I have an idea!! Why don't we believe what the Bible has to say....point blank? Not my version, your version, or their version, JUST CHRIST'S! Sounds good? Do you not know that it needs NO interpretation? That WE must line up with scriptures, not the scriptures with us?
There IS a way to know, go to the SOURCE.........................................FIN AL ANSWER!!
God is the Savior of all, especially those that believe
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