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I've been to all 3, LA about 5-6 times, Miami 5-6 times, New Orleans around a dozen. I'd go with N.O. as the winner here, and you could quantify it if you used the "correct" stats, which aren't population but street width, one lane roads, setback, walking friendly zones, bike friendly zones, and percent of that area which is connected. Adding bits and pieces of LA and Miami to statistically form a core of N.O. doesn't work, because you are adding pieces. The word fabric suggests that the areas need to be connected and not spread out. Gaps in these walkable zones represent a metaphorical hole in said fabric. If LA can go head to head with New Orleans, you could just measure Santa Monica, I think anybody would be fine with that, but there isn't one cohesive area in LA that can match up with the New Orleans core, and it isn't close.
This is precisely on target. Could not have said it better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grapico
The other argument going on:
LA is definitely has far more walkable areas than Atlanta even if they are disconnected from each other.
That's not really the argument. My point goes to your aforementioned point, which is that small areas of walkability will not function anything like a city that has a connected urban fabric. Especially when that fabric is large. Manhattan's neighborhoods in all of their splendor would provide a far worse experience than San Francisco or Chicago if it had gaping holes in its urban fabric. It wouldn't matter how dense its neighborhoods were.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 11-30-2012 at 02:22 PM..
Maybe is just perception and what people are accustomed to. Growing up I had the most experience with NYC and Philly of which Philly felt small. Then I traveled more later. From that relative perspective NOLA and Charleston felt moreso on the same scale to me, with NOLA a little bigger. To me the biggest difference as a visitor is really an attached CBD making NOLA feel a little larger in the core. The garden district to me never felt urban and I will be hones that I didnt venture too far from those areas in NOLA so maybe just where I experienced felt similar
A question on Transit - what is the ridership like for NOLA. The street cars seem more quaint than functional (sort of like the cable cars in SF in that regard) but never used buses (actually only ever used the St Charles I believe line and never even the Desire line)
Well, most of the city is laid out similar to the garden district (although obviously smaller and denser houses) along retail corridors with corner groceries, restaurants, and such sprinkled throughout neighborhoods. Uptown is more of a green part of the city lots of trees and such. Downtown (everything downriver from canal street) exhibits more of a hard urban edge with mostly buildings and concrete. It definitely doesn't feel as big as Philadelphia but it is MUCH more vibrant and large than Charleston. I do think New Orleans can feel small and limited if you limit yourself to the FQ/CBD, however there are many more neighborhoods in New Orleans.
As for transit, the streetcars are actually the most used transit lines in the city. St. Charles has a lot of tourists but the Canal line is mostly locals who take it to work and shop (desire line hasnt existed since like 60s). But, there are plently of locals who use the streetcars for daily transit, they may be kind of slow but they work. Also, they are very frequent, coming every 4-5 minutes depending on the line/time of day. The buses dont come as often as they did before Katrina (most every 7 minutes, now most every 15-25). But they are generally standing room only and usually full to capacity at peak hours.
Here's an area in Santa Monica I found to be pretty pedestrian friendly. The 3rd Street Pomenade must be some sort of pedestrian mall like what you see in places like Denver's 16th Street or Minneapolis. 4th street looks walkable. The beach near by is a plus since it isn't far to walk from there. This area reminds me of some of the areas in Miami Beach or Coconut Grove. I've not been to this part of the LA area so this changes my mind as not all areas are loaded with just wide streets along with tons of parking lots and stripmalls. I need to visit this area when I return to LA.
Here's an area in Santa Monica I found to be pretty pedestrian friendly. The 3rd Street Pomenade must be some sort of pedestrian mall like what you see in places like Denver's 16th Street or Minneapolis. 4th street looks walkable. The beach near by is a plus since it isn't far to walk from there. This area reminds me of some of the areas in Miami Beach or Coconut Grove. I've not been to this part of the LA area so this changes my mind as not all areas are loaded with just wide streets along with tons of parking lots and stripmalls. I need to visit this area when I return to LA.
Santa Monica is a great area (think technically not actually part of LA) but has a nice walkable area and feels sort of hybrid of town/resort. The 3rd street promenade is a great example of basically a mall turned inside out and fosters better mixed use IMHO (especially restaurants and nightlife). Yet SM never feels big city but definitely walkable.
Get there early when you go, the farmers market lives up to the hype
a pretty cool even if kitchy amusement pier to boot
though and this probably depends on the intensity required (which is probably different and ranging) LA even with disperate enclaves probably would have the single largest singular place fabric.
I love NOLA, a real charm for US cities but to me outside of the relatively small quarter and maybe half of the CBD it doesnt maintain fabric intensity (North of the CBD it loses it and into the garden district as charming as the area is it doesnt either) NOLA to me feels far closer to the size of urban fabric of a Charleston SC than it does LA. And Miami, well to me just somehow loses connectivity to the pedestrian everywhere (as does much of LA to me as its feels fragmented but still in its biggest fragment seems the largest) LA OTOH to me say from Hollywood to DTLA does moreso.
It doesn't maintain the "intensity" of the FQ or CBD but still has a better urban fabric with narrow streets and homes where the front of the house comes straight up to the sidewalk. The pedestrian and human scale is still there despite it's lower density/intensity nature.
Can you get to the same place, and beyond, looking completely different? In L.A.'s case, you can, quite easily.
Here is a walkscore comparison between Boston and Los Angeles. To make it fair to Boston, I'm only counting areas within Central L.A. (58 sq miles) as defined by the Los Angeles Times: Central L.A. - Mapping L.A. - Los Angeles Times.
Otherwise, Los Angeles would crush Boston in total numbers. Keep in mind that Boston is generally regarded as one of the most urban cities in America and finished 3rd among U.S. cities in walkability:
It doesn't maintain the "intensity" of the FQ or CBD but still has a better urban fabric with narrow streets and homes where the front of the house comes straight up to the sidewalk. The pedestrian and human scale is still there despite it's lower density/intensity nature.
In fact, several people like past mayors and stuff have said that "New Orleans is a world-class city built on the human scale"
Santa Monica is a great area (think technically not actually part of LA) but has a nice walkable area and feels sort of hybrid of town/resort. The 3rd street promenade is a great example of basically a mall turned inside out and fosters better mixed use IMHO (especially restaurants and nightlife). Yet SM never feels big city but definitely walkable.
Get there early when you go, the farmers market lives up to the hype
a pretty cool even if kitchy amusement pier to boot
I've always wanted to walk the Santa Monica Pier after seeing it in so many movies and on TV.
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