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In addition, the same logic assumes that each culture is exclusive across cultural barriers meaning there is no overlap, hybrid, or that each does not naturally by coincidence share some of the same traits in other regions. For example, some traits/characteristics are shared between the Midwest and the South or between the Midwest and Northeast. Most people only attach geographic location to a particular city and rule out changes in economics (transplant influence) or quite possibly the sub cultures that also exist in the city. As you mentioned, when someone says that Austin is the least southern, it does not qualify that it is not Southern at all. The exclusivity I think some are referring to in the South is the greater number of hybrid and subcultures than are exhibited in the Midwest. Great examples of hybrid or cities in different regions with a number of subcultures include Louisville, New Orleans, Miami, Austin, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Birmingham, Cincinnati etc. There are many more examples in other regions throughout the United States, but these cities always stand out to me in terms of their culture. Someone correct me if I got some of these wrong.
Louisville: Upper South, Midwest, (some might throw in an Ohio Valley Culture)
Dominant Culture: Upper South by a small margin over Midwest (some might flip these or even say they are even, presently)
New Orleans: Deep South, Old South, Gulf Coast, Cajun/Creole/French, Northeastern Transplant (New York as evidenced by unique dialect and accent)
Dominant Culture: ?
Miami: Latin American, International, New South, Northeastern Transplant
Dominant Cultures: ?
Austin: Texas Culture, New South, Southwestern
Dominant Culture: ?
I always get a kick from people referring to Oklahoma as the "Southern Midwest". Nope. Oklahoma is 100% Plains-Southern, with some light influence from it's neighbor to the North, Kansas, which is the ACTUAL Southern Midwest.
Austin, the "geographically faaaar from the rest of the South" city, is only a 2 and a half hour drive from Houston, the "most stereotypically Southern city in Texas". Might want to re-think that one.
Sometimes I have to wonder if anybody in these forums was ever actually paying attention in 8th grade Geography classes.
Since Houston is in Texas, and Texas is often debated as being a "true" Southern state, Austin is a long ways from any non-Texan Southern city. Austin to New Orleans is several hours. What other debatable Southern city is as isolated as Austin? When you look at the Southern US collectively, each Southern city is within at least 3hrs drive from another large Southern city. The Texas cities in general are the most isolated of Southern cities no? From Houston to NO is 5hrs, and Houston is the closest big city in Texas to the true South. I can't see, how you can't see what I'm saying. You can't tell me Austin, San Antonio, and points West within the state of Texas, aren't isolated from the rest of the South. Just by default of how geographically large Texas is as a state, the Texas Triangle is naturally the most isolated region from the rest of the South.
What? When did I ever say anything about El Paso being Southern? Yes, it's in the South, technically... but El Paso, unlike Austin, truly is an anomaly. It's so far removed from the rest of the region that it's obviously more culturally and topographically Southwestern than Southern. It's even further West than Denver.
And once again, I'm just going to disagree that the South is somehow more "exclusive" than any other region. Unique, perhaps... but not exclusive. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine. Honestly, I'm getting pretty tired of explaining myself. I really should just ignore these kind of threads. There's way too many of them.
Austin is pretty far removed from the rest of the South also. ALOT of Texas is pretty far removed from the rest of the South. You don't even have to go as far West as El Paso to realize this. Austin is anomaly. As is San Antonio. As is Houston, Dallas, and Fort Worth. Predominantly Hispanic cities, with majority Catholic populations is an anomaly for Southern cities. Texas is an anomaly for a Southern state.
Whatever. Austin is a misplaced Northeastern/West Coast city, if it makes you happy. I'm done with this silly thread.
Don't know why you're mad. Austin is different whether you want to admit it or not. There are unifying verifiable Southern characteristics that Southern cities have. Austin is way out puzzle demographically, and geographically, and topographically.
In addition, the same logic assumes that each culture is exclusive across cultural barriers meaning there is no overlap, hybrid, or that each does not naturally by coincidence share some of the same traits in other regions. For example, some traits/characteristics are shared between the Midwest and the South or between the Midwest and Northeast. Most people only attach geographic location to a particular city and rule out changes in economics (transplant influence) or quite possibly the sub cultures that also exist in the city. As you mentioned, when someone says that Austin is the least southern, it does not qualify that it is not Southern at all. The exclusivity I think some are referring to in the South is the greater number of hybrid and subcultures than are exhibited in the Midwest. Great examples of hybrid or cities in different regions with a number of subcultures include Louisville, New Orleans, Miami, Austin, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Birmingham, Cincinnati etc. There are many more examples in other regions throughout the United States, but these cities always stand out to me in terms of their culture. Someone correct me if I got some of these wrong.
Louisville: Upper South, Midwest, (some might throw in an Ohio Valley Culture)
Dominant Culture: Upper South by a small margin over Midwest (some might flip these or even say they are even, presently)
New Orleans: Deep South, Old South, Gulf Coast, Cajun/Creole/French, Northeastern Transplant (New York as evidenced by unique dialect and accent)
Dominant Culture: ?
Miami: Latin American, International, New South, Northeastern Transplant
Dominant Cultures: ?
Austin: Texas Culture, New South, Southwestern
Dominant Culture: ?
Baltimore: Mid-Atlantic, East Coast, Northeast, Upper South
Dominant Culture: Mid-Atlantic
Birmingham: Old South, Deep South, Appalachian
Dominant Culture: Old South
Cincinnati: Midwest, Appalachian, Upper South
Dominant Culture: Midwest
Yeah, pretty much. Cultural overlap is something that happens. It's not unusual. It shouldn't be viewed as stupid, confusing, idiotic. There are certain unifying characteristics among cities in certain regions, and some cities in those regions are cultural anomalies and outsiders. Doesn't mean those cities aren't apart of those regions, but I don't see what's so unusual about deeming those cities that are cultural anomalies in their respective regions as the "Least culturally X" of their region. Yes, you're right, it happens in the Midwest also.
Since Houston is in Texas, and Texas is often debated as being a "true" Southern state, Austin is a long ways from any non-Texan Southern city. Austin to New Orleans is several hours. What other debatable Southern city is as isolated as Austin? When you look at the Southern US collectively, each Southern city is within at least 3hrs drive from another large Southern city. The Texas cities in general are the most isolated of Southern cities no? From Houston to NO is 5hrs, and Houston is the closest big city in Texas to the true South. I can't see, how you can't see what I'm saying. You can't tell me Austin, San Antonio, and points West within the state of Texas, aren't isolated from the rest of the South. Just by default of how geographically large Texas is as a state, the Texas Triangle is naturally the most isolated region from the rest of the South.
Houston isn't close to the true south. It is in the true south. Just because there is a bit more distance between it and the next large city doesn't mean that much. It still has relative proximity and pull to Louisiana and Mississippi.
It's a common mistake to use distance as a measure for cultural relevance.
Houston isn't close to the true south. It is in the true south. Just because there is a bit more distance between it and the next large city doesn't mean that much. It still has relative proximity and pull to Louisiana and Mississippi.
It's a common mistake to use distance as a measure for cultural relevance.
Well, in regards to Austin and San Antonio, their distance from the rest of the South is part of what makes their cultural and topographical differences from the South. Precipitation drops steadily in the Hill Country and points West. Heavy precipitation is one natural trait that seems pretty consistent throughout the Sub-Tropical South. And then Austin and San Antonio's proximity to Mexico, and the demographics that reflect that, in direct opposition to typical demographics of most Southern cities, is also a contributor to SA and Austin's cultural difference from the rest of the South.
Well Birmingham can't be the Old South because it wasn't founded until after the Civil War.
True, but interestingly enough, the city has preserved more of its historic stock than some older Southern cities (e.g., Charlotte)--which gives the impression that it's older than it really is.
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