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I reckon most people around the world wouldn't know that Harvard is from the Boston area either. Harvard is a more globally well known school than the also prestigious University of Chicago, but I wonder if more people would know that UofC is in Chicago than people would know Harvard is near Boston simply by dint of the city being in the University of Chicago's name.
Harvard, Oxford and Cambridge are the three biggest Global Name Brand Universities. MIT plays in their sandbox. Maybe the Sorbonne in Paris also pops up on the radars of many.
And I believe that those who know any or all of those three also know where they are located within their respective countries. They will use Boston for Harvard and MIT to avoid confusion with the original Cambridge in England. (BTW, the college established at what was then Newtown in 1636 is the reason why the General Court of the Massachusetts Bay Colony decided to rename Newtown for that town two years later.)
As for UChicago, anyone around here who was around for the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile may recall references in the media to "the Chicago boys" — the laissez-faire economists from that school who Pinochet tapped to restructure the Chilean economy. IDK how far that phrase traveled globally, though. I do think that Chicago does have a global reputation largely because of its economics faculty, which I believe includes famed free-market champion Milton Friedman.
—MSE, Harvard '80 (AB '87), who was planning on attending Chicago before getting the fat envelope from Harvard
Idk about that Harvard Square is literally one of the regions biggest tourist attractions.
Universities have massive drop offs. Like in all of Europe, Oxbridge are the only schools with any international reputation. Imperial College for example is pretty much unknown despite being #3.
The difference between the Bulls and the Celtics are like the Patriots and the Cowboys.
One is tied to the league for a long time and has an indelible brand. The other was good for a while on the back of some guy.
I also think that HQs are less important that you think. Especially for non consumer based products that are part of a diversified economy. Because most people aren’t reading the WSJ. Like Unos Pizzeria is HQed in Boston but obviously associated with Chicago. Canadian Chain Boston Pizza is based in Edmonton but associated with Boston. Burger King is based in Toronto now Adams although I think everyone would consider it American. Or yes your average American wasn’t buying steel, but Pittsburgh was the “steel city”.
Chicago like Philly exceeds at very little but lacks very little and I think that hurts their international reputation. You’re right about Food Processing but to Chicagos detriment, those mega brands conceal the fact they are mega brands as much as humanly possible.
It's one of the regions biggest tourist attraction and most of the world will never visit there or have heard of it. That goes for Mag Mile and other things in Chicago.
I have no idea what you're trying to do with that analogy for Bulls and Celtics except it seems off and very few people really care.
Universities do have massive drop offs in terms of reputation and a massive international drop-off outside of the Anglosphere. There's also some really big surprises in terms of what gets well-known where because colleges have had different amounts of resources and length of time put into overseas recruitment. Imperial College London is a relatively new college of just a decade with a lot of its programs being incorporated and forming recently like its business school. It's also *never* a contender for the first or second spot even within the limited scope of the UK. However, it's pretty clear to the people who have heard of it where ICL is--they generally assume it's in London. The same with University of Chicago. I wouldn't say the same for Harvard though since it's not in the name. Certainly people from overseas who go to or intend to go to Harvard will know it's in the Boston area, but it's not going to be known otherwise.
I didn't say how important HQs are. I was pointing them out as something where while ostensibly there are very famous brands or entities headquartered or based in a specific city/region, there's an arguable point about what that means for the city/region. It's certainly something that comes with at least some jobs and a taxbase, but in regards to renown which is what was being discussed, that it doesn't necessarily get closely linked to the city itself was the point.
Harvard, Oxford and Cambridge are the three biggest Global Name Brand Universities. MIT plays in their sandbox. Maybe the Sorbonne in Paris also pops up on the radars of many.
And I believe that those who know any or all of those three also know where they are located within their respective countries. They will use Boston for Harvard and MIT to avoid confusion with the original Cambridge in England. (BTW, the college established at what was then Newtown in 1636 is the reason why the General Court of the Massachusetts Bay Colony decided to rename Newtown for that town two years later.)
As for UChicago, anyone around here who was around for the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile may recall references in the media to "the Chicago boys" — the laissez-faire economists from that school who Pinochet tapped to restructure the Chilean economy. IDK how far that phrase traveled globally, though. I do think that Chicago does have a global reputation largely because of its economics faculty, which I believe includes famed free-market champion Milton Friedman.
—MSE, Harvard '80 (AB '87), who was planning on attending Chicago before getting the fat envelope from Harvard
I can absolutely vouch for Harvard being extremely well known as a school abroad and that most people of the many people who will have heard of the name and know it's a university have no idea where it is except that it's in America and maybe vaguely on the east coast. The same with MIT though a decent chance that they know it is in Massachusetts. I lived outside of the US for quite a while in a few different countries and made most of my living off of tutoring / prep school and the like. Even within that very targeted audience, the parents and often the kids unless they were applying for it, didn't know where most of these schools are. They knew some of the very famous school names. They knew where the schools were if the school had the name of the city or region in it (think New York University, UCLA, UC San Diego, University of Chicago, etc.), but it was a crapshoot on whether they knew where the non-geographically named schools were even if they were famous.
Yea, the Chicago boys were a pretty interesting bit of history and the University of Chicago is somewhat quietly among the most influential institutions of the 20th century. That being said, if it weren't for the city being in the school name, I reckon that a lot of people upon hearing this alternative history name for it wouldn't know where it's based except in the US.
I can absolutely vouch for Harvard being extremely well known as a school abroad, but for most people they'll have no idea where it is except that it's in America. The same with MIT. I lived outside of the US for quite a while in a few different countries and made most of my living off of tutoring / prep school and the like. Even within that very targeted audience, the parents and often the kids unless they were applying for it, didn't know where most of these schools are. They knew some of the very famous school names. They knew where the schools were if the school had the name of the city or region in it (think New York University, UCLA, UC San Diego, University of Chicago, etc.), but it was a crapshoot on whether they knew where the non-geographically named schools were even if they were famous.
If even like 20% of people who know Harvard know where it is, it’s a bigger boost the UChicago. Similar for MIT. (Which how would MIT be unknown compared to HCLA, M stands for Massachusetts)
If even like 20% of people who know Harvard know where it is, it’s a bigger boost the UChicago. Similar for MIT. (Which how would MIT be unknown compared to HCLA, M stands for Massachusetts)
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.
I can clarify what I am saying though. I'll say that Harvard is definitely a much more well known university abroad than University of Chicago and on the scale of Stanford, Yale and Columbia for the US. Of late, it seems like some universities are pushing out as a brand overseas, such as NYU and UCLA, somewhat beyond what one would generally rank them academically. However, knowledge that there is a prestigious university of that name often does not come with knowing where that university is aside from it's in the West, very likely know it's in the US, and a strong chance they don't know it's in the Boston area. As I was saying for brands and the many food brands that have coalesced in the Chicago area, knowing the brand doesn't mean knowing where it's based nor much about the city where it's based.
If you're asking about Massachusetts being in the name of MIT and why that isn't always communicated, I didn't use MIT as an example and it's definitely less well known than Harvard. Also, sometimes people know the acronym, but not necessarily what the M is (especially if they are overseas and don't really know all the states save for a handful of them and can conflate states and cities and regions). Also, Massachusetts is not necessarily Boston or Boston area, though really, these same people probably wouldn't know that either. I think the most famous states seem to be California by far, and then I think Texas and Hawaii. Maybe Alaska is up there. New York is a weird one because of the city / state confusion.
I can absolutely vouch for Harvard being extremely well known as a school abroad and that most people of the many people who will have heard of the name and know it's a university have no idea where it is except that it's in America and maybe vaguely on the east coast. The same with MIT though a decent chance that they know it is in Massachusetts. I lived outside of the US for quite a while in a few different countries and made most of my living off of tutoring / prep school and the like. Even within that very targeted audience, the parents and often the kids unless they were applying for it, didn't know where most of these schools are. They knew some of the very famous school names. They knew where the schools were if the school had the name of the city or region in it (think New York University, UCLA, UC San Diego, University of Chicago, etc.), but it was a crapshoot on whether they knew where the non-geographically named schools were even if they were famous.
Even most Americans probably have no clue where Harvard actually is. It wasn’t until I visited Boston at 22 years old that I realized that Harvard was basically in the urban core of Boston. I had thought Cambridge, MA was just some out of the way college town in a similar vein to Ithaca, NY.
Universities do have massive drop offs in terms of reputation and a massive international drop-off outside of the Anglosphere.
That may be true, but if the questions I get asked to answer on Quora and where the posters asking them are located are any guide, that international drop-off still leaves lots of people overseas wanting to know about:
1) what the best American universities are and how to get into them
2) how to get into an Ivy League university; the term "Ivy League" itself definitely has brand power on its own
3) how to get into Harvard specifically
Quote:
I didn't say how important HQs are. I was pointing them out as something where while ostensibly there are very famous brands or entities headquartered or based in a specific city/region, there's an arguable point about what that means for the city/region. It's certainly something that comes with at least some jobs and a taxbase, but in regards to renown which is what was being discussed, that it doesn't necessarily get closely linked to the city itself was the point.
I'd say that corporate HQs confer bragging rights more than they are status indicators, though here at least, numbers of Fortune 500 companies headquartered in a city or metropolitan region does seem to serve as a status indicator.
The two best-known companies based in Kansas City are a family-owned company now in its fourth or fifth generation of family ownership and another that was family-owned before the family sold it to Swiss company Lindt about five years back. (The last generation of the family that owned it included one of my Pem-Day '76 classmates.) I tell people that between these two companies, Kansas City owns Valentine's Day. (Well, those two companies and FTD, not headquartered there.) When the one company presents one of its "Hall of Fame" made-for-TV drama specials, it makes a point of saying in its sponsor ID that it is "of Kansas City." (I'm assuming I'm giving you enough information here that I don't have to name either company. They're both very well-known names and leaders in their respective industries.) But because privately owned companies are not required to report their revenues or earnings publicly, I (and no one else) have no idea where they would rank on the Fortune 500. I bet both would (would have been) on it.
Yea, the Chicago boys were a pretty interesting bit of history and the University of Chicago is somewhat quietly among the most influential institutions of the 20th century. That being said, if it weren't for the city being in the school name, I reckon that a lot of people upon hearing this alternative history name for it wouldn't know where it's based except in the US.
Well, besides the economists, it's also the birthplace of the atomic bomb, but I think that fact is not all that widely known.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.
I can clarify what I am saying though. I'll say that Harvard is definitely a much more well known university abroad than University of Chicago and on the scale of Stanford, Yale and Columbia for the US. Of late, it seems like some universities are pushing out as a brand overseas, such as NYU and UCLA, somewhat beyond what one would generally rank them academically. However, knowledge that there is a prestigious university of that name often does not come with knowing where that university is aside from it's in the West, very likely know it's in the US, and a strong chance they don't know it's in the Boston area. As I was saying for brands and the many food brands that have coalesced in the Chicago area, knowing the brand doesn't mean knowing where it's based nor much about the city where it's based.
If you're asking about Massachusetts being in the name of MIT and why that isn't always communicated, I didn't use MIT as an example and it's definitely less well known than Harvard. Also, sometimes people know the acronym, but not necessarily what the M is (especially if they are overseas and don't really know all the states save for a handful of them and can conflate states and cities and regions). Also, Massachusetts is not necessarily Boston or Boston area, though really, these same people probably wouldn't know that either. I think the most famous states seem to be California by far, and then I think Texas and Hawaii. Maybe Alaska is up there. New York is a weird one because of the city / state confusion.
Harvard is so much more well know amongst the people of the world it literally doesn’t matter if most people who have heard of Harvard don’t know it’s in Boston cause most people do not know the University of Chicago exists at all.
New York is a weird one because of the city / state confusion.
Which the New York State tourism-promotion folks gleefully exploit by appropriating an icon, and occasionally the song associated with it, that pertain to the city rather than the state.
OTOH, there is also the Billy Joel song "New York State of Mind" that they can also use (and have). No confusion there.
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