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Ask any average tourist from outside this country what city in America they think rivals NYC in terms of being a big city?
I can guarantee you not one will say Boston lol You and your Boston cronies arguments fall on deaf ears because they're filled with homerism. They're not what the average person thinks at all. Chicago is the name that will come up most often and now LA because of this new world we live in where everything is overly Hollywoodized even though LA is a meh city. Bland, slow, copycatish and uninspiring.
I hate to break it to you about LA. Even in 2023 in your social media crazy society with all the dopey nitwits younger generation who thinks the world started in the year 2000, it didn't.
Just because it's been a fad for 10-15 years at the most doesn't means it trumps what's been going on in American history for much, much longer. You're too caught up in this Y2K bs and only what's happened recently. History is the ultimate barometer, not recency bias.
Now we are cronies because we are using our eyes and simple logic.
You didnt wanna touch the three-flats vs triple-deckers or the skyline argument...of course. Logic is homerism. Objective information (including this poll*) is homerism. I don't take it seriously. *150 Boston homers on this site- what is your aversion to numbers?
I agree Chicago is SO MUCH better than LA. SO MUCH.
But it's off the wall to say its the 2nd city in the US in 2023. It feels like 3rd maybe even 4th at times. Doesn't feel anything like the scale of NYC.
LA has been Number 2 for 50 years...Chicago gets crept on by the Bay DC Houston Boston and others. NYC does not.
Yes I am glad they are because NYC (Manhattan) needs to preserve the few longtime residents it has left that don't have a net worth over $5 million.
In this regard, Boston is way too similar. Chicago does a good job in allowing residents to work/live/play in their city regardless of socioeconomic status.
Manhattan has a ****ton of rent control / rent stabilized apartments and also people who got in via loft laws in Soho / Tribeca and the like, and then there are the large number of public housing projects especially in the Lower East Side, and co-ops that have massive flip taxes. Usually when you see average rental prices out there, they're not factoring this stuff in, but NYC has a lot of people living under some kind of system. Among rental units, something like half of units out there are under rent control or rent stabilization of some kind. Rent control is the really tough one to get though.
Now we are cronies because we are using our eyes and simple logic.
You didnt wanna touch the three-flats vs triple-deckers or the skyline argument...of course. Logic is homerism. Objective information (including this poll) is homerism. I don't take it seriously. 150 Boston homers on this site?
I agree Chicago is SO MUCH better than LA. SO MUCH.
But it's off the wall to say its the 2nd city in the US in 2023. It feels like 3rd maybe even 4th at times. Doesn't feel anything like the scale of NYC.
LA has been Number 2 for 50 years...Chicago gets crept on by the Bay DC Houston Boston and others. NYC does not.
Probably because LA in a lot of ways isn't number two. I think that's part of the confusion.
NYC is very solidly number one though. The only potentially reasonable side argument any US city has would be a longshot argument for DC at number one, and that is a real longshot argument.
There are several theories behind the origins of Chicago’s “Second City” nickname. In 1871, Chicago was forced to completely rebuild after the Great Chicago Fire, emerging a stronger, more vibrant city like a phoenix from the ashes. The new Chicago was a “Second City” because it was built twice. Another theory for the origin of the “Second City” nickname comes from Chicago’s rivalry with New York. In the early 20th century, Chicago was second only to New York (Los Angeles had not yet surpassed the city in size), making it the “Second City” according to a snarky travelogue written by native New Yorker, A.J. Liebling.
Manhattan has a ****ton of rent control / rent stabilized apartments and also people who got in via loft laws in Soho / Tribeca and the like, and then there are the large number of public housing projects especially in the Lower East Side, and co-ops that have massive flip taxes. Usually when you see average rental prices out there, they're not factoring this stuff in, but NYC has a lot of people living under some kind of system. Among rental units, something like half of units out there are under rent control or rent stabilization of some kind. Rent control is the really tough one to get though.
Yeah I work with a good amount of the lottery/housing authorities who particularly have a high amount of units. A few of them have tenants paying like $400 a month for a two bedroom, in the LES or adjacent neighborhoods. Crazy. But once they go, Landlords can jack the rents up to whatever they want. 7,000 or 8,000 maybe.
Boston used to have rent control, they should bring it back.
Chicago hasn't seen the boom like NYC and Boston have over the past 20 or 30 years, so rent control would do way more damage than not. This is where Chicago separates from the two. The whole dynamic of the city is shaped off of this and its relative affordability.
Yeah I work with a good amount of the lottery/housing authorities who particularly have a high amount of units. A few of them have tenants paying like $400 a month for a two bedroom, in the LES or adjacent neighborhoods. Crazy. But once they go, Landlords can jack the rents up to whatever they want. 7,000 or 8,000 maybe.
Boston used to have rent control, they should bring it back.
Chicago hasn't seen the boom like NYC and Boston have over the past 20 or 30 years.
Rent control and rent stabilized units can and are passed to subsequent tenants, but yes, landlords try really hard to find ways to get them off control or stabilization.
I do think probably what makes more sense is to greatly improve mass transit infrastructure and heavily build up less crowded parts of the metropolitan area. Just make all of it New York City or something.
Chicago is quite different though the Loop, areas near the Loop and much of the Northside have boomed. It just hasn't boomed as much as the West side and South Side have lost.
the City Index, the world most comprehensive research on City perception/brand. New York is #2 worldwide, Chicago is #15 and Boston is #20. Munich is #29
Literally every single angle Chicago is closest to Boston. Not just on economy or population but on just about every other thing you can think of... We could go on for 100 pages worth of evidence.
Mhm..Notorious Boston homers over at the Global and World Cities Research Network and Brand Finance.
Boston does have 20-21% of its housing units tied up in income-restricted housing. Which is effectively rent control. Another 8-9% are section 8 or public housing.
This seems more like what the current NYC income-restricted housing programs are like than rent control or rent stabilization programs are and NYC has built a lot of those as well in recent decades since that's how developers are able to get projects approved where they get easements on things like number of units and height and sometimes for completely different units built in another neighborhood from where the income-restricted housing is built. Rent control and rent stabilization have very specific meanings in the NYC rental market and are different from these. Rent control especially is like winning a lottery jackpot. Another separate one that's similar is getting units from under the loft law.
Rent control and rent stabilized units can and are passed to subsequent tenants, but yes, landlords try really hard to find ways to get them off control or stabilization.
I do think probably what makes more sense is to greatly improve mass transit infrastructure and heavily build up less crowded parts of the metropolitan area. Just make all of it New York City or something.
But that requires coordination, pshhh NYC/NY/NJ/CT/Individual Municipalities being all on the same page? We all know how much everybody and anybody from NJ and LI hate NYC lol. Westchester and FFC are in their own yachts tripping on gold. So NYC's best bet is to build up what they can. There is a lot left but we shall see.
This seems more like what the current NYC income-restricted housing programs are like than rent control or rent stabilization programs are and NYC has built a lot of those as well in recent decades since that's how developers are able to get projects approved where they get easements on things like number of units and height and sometimes for completely different units built in another neighborhood from where the income-restricted housing is built. Rent control and rent stabilization have very specific meanings in the NYC rental market and are different from these.
I consider it akin to rent control as the rent is quite literally- controlled. I'm aware NYC has those apts too. No argument it has less income restriction than Boston. Clearly, it has much more. But Boston is #2 in both Income restricted "affordable" housing (and many cities in MA have it) and % public housing as part of the city's overall housing market. But no rent control.
Income-restricted housing is going up to a mandated 20% (17% affordable-income based and 3% Housing voucher/section 8) on all new developments of at least 5 units in Boston beginning October 1, 2024. Up from 13% required today.
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