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Instead of Stockyard and CBE, if I were arguing for Chicago being closer to New York City, I’d point out that Chicago is probably closer to NYC as far as notable people and the diversity of those people in my lifetime. And that’s across pop culture, sports, music, etc.
Obama
Oprah
Kanye
Robin Williams
Eddie Vedder
Hilary Clinton
Buddy Guy
Hugh Hefner
Dwayne Wade
The Belushis
Etc. etc. etc.
I think this point was made upthread, but Chicago was so hyper relevant and popular in the 80s and 90s. The John Hughes movies, all of the celebrities, second city, the Bulls, the “invention” of house music. To me, the Chicago of my Childhood was heads and shoulders above Boston in the National spotlight. It definitely had a seat at the table with NYC and LA. For those that are 35+, that probably still lingers.
Ehh you can make a list of almost equal stature of people who were from and/or lived in Boston at some point.
If you are counting Oprah (born in Mississippi moved to Chicago) and Hillary Clinton (born and Chicago but did nothing after that in Illinois) you’re going to get a significant list for any major population center. Especially if you’re including people who would be 100 years old. If you’re gonna count High Hefner might as well count JFK and RFK (the latter was 9 months younger than High Hefner). May as well call Holy Cross a blue blood College basketball program.
Clinton and Obama both went to school in the Boston area for example.
Oprah is actually a great example of the “fall of Chicago”. In the 1980s she was able to establish and grow into a national celebrity from Chicago. The Spin offs from her shoe. Even with the backing of Oprah and her power, decamped to LA and NY cause Chicago could not sustain that sort of thing anymore without incumbency by ~2000
I think this point was made upthread, but Chicago was so hyper relevant and popular in the 80s and 90s. The John Hughes movies, all of the celebrities, second city, the Bulls, the “invention” of house music. To me, the Chicago of my Childhood was heads and shoulders above Boston in the National spotlight. It definitely had a seat at the table with NYC and LA. For those that are 35+, that probably still lingers.
37 here - this checks out. Reading the thread title, my immediate instinct was to put Chicago as being closer to NYC. "Big 3," and everything you've mentioned here. But the actual "closer to Boston" arguments are stronger than the "closer to NYC" arguments. A few posts back, someone said that most people from outside of the North America would probably consider Chicago and Boston to be more similar and that's certainly true in my experience. Granted, a lot of the gap is more of a testament to NYC's status as one of the top global cities on the planet. But I do think the gap between New York and Chicago is significantly greater than the gap between Chicago and Boston. Though I do think that for the things that matter to normal every day people (read: not VC funding or elite prep schools), Chicago is still the more notable and important city. Boston certainly punches above its weight though.
*Edit* how are we going to talk 90s Chicago icon cultural status without Urkel/Family Matters?!
Ehh you can make a list of almost equal stature of people who were from and/or lived in Boston at some point.
If you are counting Oprah (born in Mississippi moved to Chicago) and Hillary Clinton (born and Chicago but did nothing after that in Illinois) you’re going to get a significant list for any major population center. Especially if you’re including people who would be 100 years old. If you’re gonna count High Hefner might as well count JFK and RFK (the latter was 9 months younger than High Hefner). May as well call Holy Cross a blue blood College basketball program.
Clinton and Obama both went to school in the Boston area for example.
Oprah is actually a great example of the “fall of Chicago”. In the 1980s she was able to establish and grow into a national celebrity from Chicago. The Spin offs from her shoe. Even with the backing of Oprah and her power, decamped to LA and NY cause Chicago could not sustain that sort of thing anymore without incumbency by ~2000
That’s not the point I was making.
It the minds of people across the US, Oprah = Chicago.
This wasn’t necessarily an exercise to list our who was born where, or who went to school where.
37 here - this checks out. Reading the thread title, my immediate instinct was to put Chicago as being closer to NYC. "Big 3," and everything you've mentioned here. But the actual "closer to Boston" arguments are stronger than the "closer to NYC" arguments. A few posts back, someone said that most people from outside of the North America would probably consider Chicago and Boston to be more similar and that's certainly true in my experience. Granted, a lot of the gap is more of a testament to NYC's status as one of the top global cities on the planet. But I do think the gap between New York and Chicago is significantly greater than the gap between Chicago and Boston. Though I do think that for the things that matter to normal every day people (read: not VC funding or elite prep schools), Chicago is still the more notable and important city. Boston certainly punches above its weight though.
*Edit* how are we going to talk 90s Chicago icon cultural status without Urkel/Family Matters?!
Another great post.
More Chicago 90s stuff- ER, Married with Children, etc.
Chicago was hyper influential in the TV screens despite the conversation about venture capitol and other stuff that really doesnt matter to 99.999999% of people.
Hell, even Batman’s Gotham City is based off of a Chicago in the middle of New Jersey.
It the minds of people across the US, Oprah = Chicago.
This wasn’t necessarily an exercise to list our who was born where, or who went to school where.
IL is probably like 4th place people associate Clinton with though. After at least AR, NY and DC.
Dwayne Wade is associated with Miami more than anywhere else.
I would be shocked if any normal person could tell you where Robin Williams was from.
Basically every large city has a pretty big list of “celebrities born or otherwise have lived for some time there in the last 100 years”. Oprah and Obama are probably the only “Chicago celebrities” on that list. Maybe Kanye too.
It the minds of people across the US, Oprah = Chicago.
This wasn’t necessarily an exercise to list our who was born where, or who went to school where.
That’s reasonable
Should I start rattling off nyc cultural icons??
Every news station, Broadway, the daily show, King Kong, countless tv series, sitcoms, Seinfeld, Sinatra, jay-z
Notorious BIG…
How about fashion? Nyc is leagues ahead of chicago fashion with countless international brands only recognized as NYC
Again the thread is is chicago closer to ny or Boston
IL is probably like 4th place people associate Clinton with though. After at least AR, NY and DC.
Dwayne Wade is associated with Miami more than anywhere else.
I would be shocked if any normal person could tell you where Robin Williams was from.
Basically every large city has a pretty big list of “celebrities born or otherwise have lived for some time there in the last 100 years”. Oprah and Obama are probably the only “Chicago celebrities” on that list. Maybe Kanye too.
Yeah I mean that’s fair. Some of those are from Chicago, while others are associated with Chicago. Some are both.
I do think Dwayne Wade is very much associated with Chicago, but maybe that just comes with a little bit of tribal knowledge. Ditto one or two others on that list… Like how would anyone who was around at the time not know the Belushis are from Chicago? In fact, I’m sure a lot of casual comedy fans thought many of those actors and comedians were from Chicago given the Second City and SNL connections and skits.
Another good one would be Vince Vaughn. Like, it’s hard not to know he’s from Chicago because he’s so vocal about it and is a face for their sports teams. Bill Murray too?
That’s reasonable
Should I start rattling off nyc cultural icons??
Every news station, Broadway, the daily show, King Kong, countless tv series, sitcoms, Seinfeld, Sinatra, jay-z
Notorious BIG…
How about fashion? Nyc is leagues ahead of chicago fashion with countless international brands only recognized as NYC
Again the thread is is chicago closer to ny or Boston
I think you missed the part where I specifically called out the decades where Chicago, to me, was closer to NYC than Boston as far as pop culture influence and celebrity notoriety.
Again, Chicago had a seat at the table in the 80s and 90s with NYC and LA. Boston has never, nor will it ever be as big a part of popular culture as Chicago was then. And I think that very much effects the way those that are 35+ perceive Chicagos size and sphere of influence.
Getting into fashion and all of the other things that NYC does better/more of than Chicago and Boston is a sompeletrly separate point that I think you and I would agree on. Hence why I firmly believe Chicago is closer to Boston than to NYC, in just about every way.
I think you missed the part where I specifically called out the decades where Chicago, to me, was closer to NYC than Boston as far as pop culture influence and celebrity notoriety.
Again, Chicago had a seat at the table in the 80s and 90s with NYC and LA. Boston has never, nor will it ever be as big a part of popular culture as Chicago was then. And I think that very much effects the way those that are 35+ perceive Chicagos size and sphere of influence.
Getting into fashion and all of the other things that NYC does better/more of than Chicago and Boston is a sompeletrly separate point that I think you and I would agree on. Hence why I firmly believe Chicago is closer to Boston than to NYC, in just about every way.
Fashion is part of pop culture
Trends and styles that forever originated in nyc
DKNY, BCBG, rag and bone, macys, Ralph Lauren and on and on
The music industry including “pop” music is virtually all nyc… in the 90s it was MTV
This goes way beyond family matters or cheers … chicago may have been more in your face than Boston but in my opinion was still not closer to ny, especially now
Instead of Stockyard and CBE, if I were arguing for Chicago being closer to New York City, I’d point out that Chicago is probably closer to NYC as far as notable people and the diversity of those people in my lifetime. And that’s across pop culture, sports, music, etc.
Obama
Oprah
Kanye
Robin Williams
Eddie Vedder
Hilary Clinton
Buddy Guy
Hugh Hefner
Dwayne Wade
The Belushis
Etc. etc. etc.
I think this point was made upthread, but Chicago was so hyper relevant and popular in the 80s and 90s. The John Hughes movies, all of the celebrities, second city, the Bulls, the “invention” of house music. To me, the Chicago of my Childhood was heads and shoulders above Boston in the National spotlight. It definitely had a seat at the table with NYC and LA. For those that are 35+, that probably still lingers.
Are there really a lot more famous people from Chicago than Boston?
Joe Rogan
Jay Leno
Conan O Brian
Mark Wahlberg
Bobby Brown
Traci Chapman
Aerosmith
New Kids in the Blick
Chris Evans
Matt Damon
Patrice ONeal
Sam Jay
Jeremy Strong
Ayo Edebiri
John Cena
Donna Summer
Patrick Ewing
BIA
Ben affleck
MattDamon
Guru
Aly Raisman
Al B. Sure
Michael Bloomberg
John Kerry
Nicky Jam
Bill DeBlasio
Louis CK
The Cars
Lofa Tatupu
Whitey Bulger
Louis Farrakhan (lives in Chicago now)
Chick Corea
Jasmine Guy
Arguably JoJo and Joyner Lucas
Kofi Kingston
Uzo Udoba
Mindy Kalling
BJ Novak
Dana Barros
Lenny Clarke
Marty Walsh
Charlie Baker
Steve Carrell
Benzino
Boston Legal
Boston Public
Frasier
Cheers
Sabrina the Teenage Witch
Alley McBeal
Crossing Jordan
City on a Hill
A Million Little Thigns
Spenser for Hire
Southie Rules
Dawson’s Creek
Wings
St. Elswhere
Survivors Remorse (kind of)
Zoom
While I admit we’re light on TV shows were heavy on Movies.
I could go on…is it really closer to NYC now? I 100% doubt that. 100%.
but maybe for the 35-40+ crowd it seems that way.
Last edited by BostonBornMassMade; 11-01-2023 at 11:06 AM..
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