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I'm not really understanding how someone could say this looks hideous. Not preferable to you, sure. But "hideous??"
To me...
I am also not a fan of Toronto's skyline, despite its impressive size. For the same reason. Big blue glass buildings.
I actually prefer Miami's due to its amazing lights at night, and the contrast between that and the bay.
Isn't Miami MSA larger than Toronto? I think in some ways Miami is already ahead of Toronto. Seattle has the more continuous urban infill, and I much prefer the surrounding country side of Washington than Florida.
Isn't Miami MSA larger than Toronto? I think in some ways Miami is already ahead of Toronto. Seattle has the more continuous urban infill, and I much prefer the surrounding country side of Washington than Florida.
Canadian MSAs aren't measured in the same way as American.
The comparative number would be to use the Greater Horseshoe population, which is considerably higher.
Miami MSA would be better compared to Montreal...
As far as urban infill, not sure... It's close. Seattle definitely within the core, but the rest? The only thing Miami is missing is proper transit to accompany the dense neighborhoods. As it currently stands, it's garbage. I have to Uber my way around when I am there, which is ridiculous. But the urban expanse overall, I think, surpasses Seattle. It's just not as strong within its strongest areas.
If we are talking numbers of tall buildings over 500' there is really no comparison - Miami.
I did a quick look at list of tallest for these cities and the count for each over 500' is
Seattle 21
Miami 58
Toronto is at 72
So when it comes to building tall - Miami has been building more and more taller than Seattle and unless something drastically changes in dynamic, it likely will continue to be Miami.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal813
Canadian MSAs aren't measured in the same way as American.
The comparative number would be to use the Greater Horseshoe population, which is considerably higher.
Miami MSA would be better compared to Montreal...
.
Yeah the Greater Golden Horseshoe is now at 9.7 million as of 2021 Stats Can census. Now I think that would be more comparable to a CSA than MSA. I have no idea what the MSA would be but its probably somewhere between the core horseshoe population of 7.7 million and the GGH of 9.7 million. I took a look at Miami - Lauderdale W Palm Beach MSA and it is at 6.1 million in 2021 estimate over a whopping 6100 sq miles. For comparison the core area of the Horseshoe's 7.7 million is over an area of 3900 sq miles. So Perhaps Miami is as expansive (or even more so in area than Toronto), but certainly not as dense or populated an urban area as Toronto.
If we are talking numbers of tall buildings over 500' there is really no comparison - Miami.
I did a quick look at list of tallest for these cities and the count for each over 500' is
Seattle 21
Miami 58
Toronto is at 72
So when it comes to building tall - Miami has been building more and more taller than Seattle and unless something drastically changes in dynamic, it likely will continue to be Miami.
Yeah the Greater Golden Horseshoe is now at 9.7 million as of 2021 Stats Can census. Now I think that would be more comparable to a CSA than MSA. I have no idea what the MSA would be but its probably somewhere between the core horseshoe population of 7.7 million and the GGH of 9.7 million. I took a look at Miami - Lauderdale W Palm Beach MSA and it is at 6.1 million in 2021 estimate over a whopping 6100 sq miles. For comparison the core area of the Horseshoe's 7.7 million is over an area of 3900 sq miles. So Perhaps Miami is as expansive (or even more so in area than Toronto), but certainly not as dense or populated an urban area as Toronto.
Ok, but Seattle has 61 buildings of 400+ feet that are completed or under construction. Most Seattle
skyscrapers are between 400 and 500 feet. So that 500+ threshold is misleading.
Ok, but Seattle has 61 buildings of 400+ feet that are completed or under construction. Most Seattle
skyscrapers are between 400 and 500 feet. So that 500+ threshold is misleading.
Large parts of Seattle have a 400 ft height limit for the seaplanes in Lake Union. A lot of the towers in South Lake Union are exactly 400 ft tall.
Look at the demographics. Seattle is 60% college educated adults. Miami is more like 30%. Miami has double the poverty rate and less than half the household income. Seattle is a global center for intellectual property creation. Historically, it has lacked the world class university but the University of Washington is rising up the ranks and is probably 20 years from being in the top few state universities.
Miami has 1%ers who mostly didn’t make their money there but the overall skill of the labor force makes for massive wealth and income stratification. Seattle has a much higher fraction of high skill upper middle class. Seattle’s geography doesn’t lend itself to sprawl and big population growth so Miami is always going to have the bigger population though most are poorly educated and lower income. Assuming you have an intellectual property creation job, I think Seattle will always have the better quality of life.
Look at the demographics. Seattle is 60% college educated adults. Miami is more like 30%. Miami has double the poverty rate and less than half the household income. Seattle is a global center for intellectual property creation. Historically, it has lacked the world class university but the University of Washington is rising up the ranks and is probably 20 years from being in the top few state universities.
Miami has 1%ers who mostly didn’t make their money there but the overall skill of the labor force makes for massive wealth and income stratification. Seattle has a much higher fraction of high skill upper middle class. Seattle’s geography doesn’t lend itself to sprawl and big population growth so Miami is always going to have the bigger population though most are poorly educated and lower income. Assuming you have an intellectual property creation job, I think Seattle will always have the better quality of life.
For the cities proper, I agree. But at the metro level its quite different. The Seattle metro has multiple large blue collar, fairly uneducated, crime relatively high cities where the economy is extremely one dimensional and relies entirely on things like Boeing and the military. Im talking about cities like Tacoma, Everett and Bremerton. These places are nothing like Seattle in that they are provincial, insular, and not very educated. A lot of the Seattle metro feels a bit redneckish, especially when you leave King County. Miami has a wide range of cities and suburbs in its metro but in general I feel like most of the extreme wealth is not in the city proper but in suburbs. In Seattle the wealth and power come from the city itself and the immediate Eastside. Much of the rest of the metro (in particular, outside of King County) feels good ol’ boyish and downtrodden.
Last edited by JohnGuterson; 06-25-2022 at 02:30 AM..
For the cities proper, I agree. But at the metro level its quite different. The Seattle metro has multiple large blue collar, fairly uneducated, crime relatively high cities where the economy is extremely one dimensional and relies entirely on things like Boeing and the military. Im talking about cities like Tacoma, Everett and Bremerton. These places are nothing like Seattle in that they are provincial, insular, and not very educated. A lot of the Seattle metro feels a bit redneckish, especially when you leave King County. Miami has a wide range of cities and suburbs in its metro but in general I feel like most of the extreme wealth is not in the city proper but in suburbs. In Seattle the wealth and power come from the city itself. Much of the rest of the metro (in particular, outside of King County) feels good ol’ boyish and downtrodden. Especially compared to an extremely sophisticated metro like the Bay Area.
Sure, but housing costs are going to drive gentrification. I’d cite Boston as an example. Former working class suburbs like Natick, Burlington, and North Reading have transitioned to white collar. Anyone who bought a house since 2000 isn’t working class. As the working class people die off, the demographics will shift to be comparable to the blue chip suburbs that have always been like that. High density places like Somerville and Medford have also transitioned.
Sure, but housing costs are going to drive gentrification. I’d cite Boston as an example. Former working class suburbs like Natick, Burlington, and North Reading have transitioned to white collar. Anyone who bought a house since 2000 isn’t working class. As the working class people die off, the demographics will shift to be comparable to the blue chip suburbs that have always been like that. High density places like Somerville and Medford have also transitioned.
Maybe - but it's not there yet -
People talk about how Seattle is a world class city, and as a city it is starting to become that. But as a metro area it really falls off. Don't get me wrong, there are many excellent places to live in the Seattle metro, but don't fool yourself into thinking you're in an extremely sophisticated metro like the Bay Area. I'm sorry but in terms of education, sophistication, cosmopolitanism, etc. places like Fife, Lynnwood and Issaquah feel downright backwoods and simple compared to places like Palo Alto, Burlingame, Marin County, Berkeley.
Let's put it this way - I can drive literally 25 minutes from Seattle and be in a place where people wear Cowboy boots and the high school kids all jack up their trucks and listen to country music (Maple Valley). That is not something I can do from Miami.
Last time I was up there I had to go to a place called Buckley in Pierce County. And let me tell you - I heard the Deliverance theme music as soon as I stepped into the town. I know every metro has outskirts that become less sophisticated, etc. but Seattle - for how powerful and high class the city itself is - drops into redneckville way faster than you'd expect. (unless you go to the rich and fancy Eastside of King County). In that regard, it;s nothing like the Toronto Metro Area which is highly urban and educated throughout. But neither is Miami.
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