The next Toronto.... Seattle vs Miami?? (highest, parks, beautiful, NYC)

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by Fitzrovian

The link you just posted shows a trip time of 1hr and 10mins, which is actually quite impressive for a point-to-point trip time covering a distance of 29 miles. Yes of course, you need to get to the train station from wherever you are and then from the train station to wherever you are going. That's the case with any transit system in any city in the world (which is why private transport is usually faster for most trips -- not just in South Florida but almost everywhere). Most people I know commuting from the burbs into Manhattan spend easily around 1hr30mins to get to the office, including from locations not as far from Manhattan as Ft Lauderdale is from Miami. And NY has the best and most comprehensive transit system in North America.

Runs once an hour at peak hours. That was the main killer.

[Guineas]

Originally Posted by Arcenal813

Runs once an hour at peak hours. That was the main killer.

lol that's DOA.

[mhays25]

Miami will always have more towers than Seattle, but Seattle's towers will always be more urban. We don't do the above-grade parking podiums, and we build far fewer spaces. Even in Bellevue the parking is below-grade.

One-hour frequencies would be good for Amtrak but that's pretty bad for local transit. On Saturday I went from Seattle to Tacoma, about 35 miles. There's an express bus, commuter rail (weekday rush hours only), and Amtrak. The bus runs every half hour and takes about an hour, much of that on the streets through each downtown. Before Covid, it was every five minutes at rush hours. Around 2030 light rail will extend to Tacoma, every six minutes.

[retslow105]

Even when looking at existing buildings over 100 feet Emporis is showing Miami with 545 and Seattle with 384. Miami is much, much taller overall too. That also includes only Miami city proper, and Greater Miami has the most tall buildings by faaar in the U.S. outside of the metro areas most populated city.

[JohnGuterson]

It really depends on what aspects of Toronto we're talking about here.

[Arcenal813]

Originally Posted by JohnGuterson

It really depends on what aspects of Toronto we're talking about here.

Originally Posted by odurandina

Miami and Seattle are getting big and tall... which city will be grander?
The best agitators: put up your favorite categories as well,
and let 'er rip

Big, tall and grand... All 3 by far go to Miami.

The question is weird though, as neither one comes close to Toronto.

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Fitzrovian

What is “the urbanity of Toronto”? I mean it’s not like all of Toronto looks like the Financial District. In fact, you can walk 15 minutes from the heart of Downtown Toronto and see detached single family homes. Obviously it is more urban than Miami overall — as it should be given it had a population over a quarter million before Miami was even born — but to say that Miami doesn’t have anything outside of Downtown and Miami Beach that even compares to Toronto is absurd. What are the great big urban nodes of Toronto — outside of its Downtown and a few adjacent neighborhoods that are technically still part of downtown, if we are doing apples to apples — that Miami should be looking to emulate? I like Toronto very much, but it’s not exactly a global poster child for great urbanity. Outside of its inner 5-10 sq.miles it is overwhelmingly dominated by SFH neighborhoods and non-descript apartment blocks.
.

Overall Old Toronto has pretty good urbanity. Lots of those residential SFH's are close to very urban main streets with very high walk scores and good access to mass transit. That is really how Old Toronto is built, residential streets that are close to urban main streets throughout. So you get the best of both worlds. If you don't know this, you don't know Old Toronto or its urbanity. I would agree with you outside Old Toronto ie North York and Scarberia, it is largely SFH, malls, power centre's and highrises, but within Old Toronto it has lots of urbanity throughout, including many places outside the DT Core. Actually, The FiDi is not really the poster child for interesting urbanity really. It is mostly office buildings. The better hoods in Old Toronto are outside the DT Core. Ie The Danforth, Kensignton, Roncesvalles, Queen West, Queen East, High Park and list goes on. If you need more hoods in Old Toronto hmu and I will provide them

Originally Posted by Arcenal813

Big, tall and grand... All 3 by far go to Miami.

The question is weird though, as neither one comes close to Toronto.

This is why I am confused by this thread. The OP has a poll regarding big and tall. References Toronto in the thread title as the bar the other two are reaching for so I assume building highrises/scrapers. That is kinda really what T.O is known for in terms of development. Sure there has been lots of other developments in the city, but if you ask anyone in C/D its like this mad crazy highrise development most cranes in N.A type of thing so if that is the case, Miami wins this convincingly. If it is other categories sure but than why not just have a general Miami v Seattle thread.

[Guineas]

Originally Posted by fusion2

The better hoods in Old Toronto are outside the DT Core. Ie Kensignton, Roncesvalles, Queen West, Queen East, High Park and list goes on.

And those neighborhoods are more similar to the Seattle neighborhoods and urban villages.

[fusion2]

Originally Posted by Guineas

And those neighborhoods are more similar to the Seattle neighborhoods and urban villages.

Its funny you should say that because i've been to Seattle. Of all the U.S cities I've been to, its built form and vibe reminded me the most of T.O actually. I also really liked Seattle and would love to go back. That all said, I'm not really thinking the OP's vision of 'grander' was based on which city is going to follow Toronto's urbanity the most. I think he was talking about vertical developments and it is hard for me to objectively give this to Seattle. I think Seattle has more balance probably and definitely their are better and more prominent commercial scrapers in Seattle. Actually, I just think Seattle has a much better skyline than Miami but in terms of overall vertical development - for me its clear.

Originally Posted by mhays25

Miami will always have more towers than Seattle, but Seattle's towers will always be more urban. We don't do the above-grade parking podiums, and we build far fewer spaces. Even in Bellevue the parking is below-grade.
.

Yeah above grade parking Podiums are hideous. Nothing could cut a building off of an urban fabric more than that.

[odurandina]

Grander = your subjective interpretation/s in the spectrum of 'wow'/grandiose/ tall/ iconic/ visual impact, with protagonists including categories to bolster their points of view, going down the depth's....
Example Seattle is ahead on subterranean transit infrastructure.
i see Miami as ahead. But you can only build so much (theory) before the transit nightmare rears its head.
A good number of Miami's mid-rise and highrise towers are wide (not in every case, but w/ many), some even as far as being (fat) and less attractive--- in a way similar to Boston.
Seattle's highrises adhere to an urban aesthetic, not only that i prefer. but their a/r makes them look a bit taller (anyway).

Originally Posted by retslow105

Even when looking at existing buildings over 100 feet Emporis is showing Miami with 545 and Seattle with 384. Miami is much, much taller overall too. That also includes only Miami city proper, and Greater Miami has the most tall buildings by faaar in the U.S. outside of the metro areas most populated city.

not sure Miami has more over 300', 400', etc than even Chicago??
certainly not more <500'.

"Emporis is showing Miami with 545 and Seattle with 384. Miami is much, much taller overall too."

Miami has a huge advantage: it's causeways/ omg, you see everything! and so spectacularly, LIT UP.
Yes the visual impact is there. Miami is spread out along the intercoastal like a comet's orbit. It will soon connect all the way to Broward.
Walk the streets of both cities and the numerical differences all but vanish.
Seattle passes/surpasses all expectations (eye test).
The 2 cities DO compare favorably when you're there, moving about.

Toronto: don't get me wrong; i love Toronto:
Still, from my perspective, some of To's buildings present as a bit standoffish, w/ a few set off, with large, unsightly roads, visually 'moats' re; Little Dubai.
Not everywhere: not sure how much this has recently changed.
For me; this takes away from some of its 'iconic....'

Seattle and Miami will not rival Toronto's size soon, if ever.
But, may (may) make up for some of it, with their extensive, tall, dense, connected neighborhoods...
To me, they both accomplish the big, grand city thing well.
gets even better in a few years?
600', 700', 750' vs Toronto: To, a bit taller/ a given:
New York wasn't exceedingly tall 35 years ago. Trump Tower (~201m) was one of the tallest built over a good number of years. But NYC's towers were so well knitted into the urban fabric, it hardly mattered.