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^^Seattle most certainly compares well to Miami, given that Miami is spread out along its coast. Seattle's endless 400'~440' residential bodes limitless feasibility w/ no end flanking its core. I'm using "core" loosely to describe their tall Downtown & residential zones. Seattle's core is nearly as impressive and compares well to Miami's 'near downtown' zone.
Both will see more and more in the 400~500' range. Except Seattle's residential zoning mostly ranges 400'~440'..... Miami will continue getting the very tall, 600-1100' variety, and outpace Seattle. Then, nearer to Miami/ Dade/ Broward's
airports, building will be much more FAA height restricted.
At the moment, Miami's advantage over Seattle is pure numbers: less the eye test, as Miami's height extends wayyy down toward Haulover Inlet.
Miami & Seattle both embrace growth toward big urban metropolis', have the construction starts, financing, economies and construction that indicate no end in sight. Miami for its climate and intl appeal, and Seattle w/ endless tech and proximity to Asia.
Are there many Vancouver transplants moving to Seattle?
Their inferior size to Toronto is a moot point. Both are full intl cities in their own right, with boundless appeal.
Seattle is a bit more advanced on transit, where Miami is lagging behind.
An afternoon spent near the Turnpike/95/441/ & Palmetto shows how much Miami needs to go, and get moving. Miami has considerable catching up to do, and will be much more a car-centric city than Seattle for the foreseeable future.
I thought a big point of this thread was 'by the numbers' if not by the numbers than its just gets entirely subjective. Subjective is totally fine if that is the context of the thread, but all indicators are this is more an objective assessment based on your goalposts in the thread creation. I simply stated that it is likely Miami has a plethora of 400-499 ft highrises as well to counter the claim that most of Seattle's building are in that range. Clearly, Miami has more 500 ft plus scrapers than Seattle.
As for Toronto, I was providing context since the thread title is 'the next Toronto' - so for context Toronto has over 2000 highrises. Since you mentioned Toronto in the thread title lol..?? Not sure how that is a moot point!! Even your poll is based on big and tall - so big and tall what than? poles for pole dancing? If not buildings and skyscrapers as a way to 'grander' - than what are you talking about, more opera houses, theatres, Libraries, Amazon or Starbucks buildings - what? So, by all means provide the context you want for this thread (you are the OP no?), because it doesn't seem clear to me what you want out of the thread you created.
If you want to talk about grander in terms of DT Core concentration of development, or grander in terms of 'eye' appeal or other factors, I think you should have stated it when you created this thread. Otherwise, this thread is kind of rudderless and lost imo because you haven't provided enough context..
Quote:
Originally Posted by retslow105
For buildings over 400' Emporis is showing Miami with 18 buildings under construction with 47 more planned and Seattle is showing 5 under construction with 27 more planned. Miami has the most in the country by far for both under construction and planned buildings outside of NYC. Los Angeles and Chicago both have 6 under construction but it looks like Seattle has more planned out at 27.
And that's just Miami proper.
Thanks for this. It is aligned with what I am seeing in terms of completions. At least greater than 500' where Miami has almost 3 times as many v Seattle. So in terms of an objective lens, Miami should be easily winning this thread if we are talking buildings/Scrapers as a way to at least put some objectivity to 'grander' - Instead it is losing and we are awash in 'subjectivity' and showing video's of Pike Place Market, Seattle's waterfront, and how 'hopping' Seattle is in terms of ped traffic smh.
I think you are a good and intelligent poster but when it comes to Miami you just sound like you have an axe to grind. I mean you are certainly entitled to your opinion and your anecdotal experiences — we all have cities we like and dislike, and that’s fine — but your perspective of Miami seems heavily distorted with misinformation and bias. You have previously said that Brickell City Centre is just one block (false), complained that there isn’t a good transit link between Downtown Miami and Ft Lauderdale (in fact there is — it’s called Brightline and it has provided a regular, express high speed train service between the two downtowns since 2018), dismissed Hollywood Broadwalk as a just a beach (it’s not — it’s a historic boardwalk without an analog anywhere else in Florida with a lovely walkable neighborhood adjacent to it) and basically brushed off all of Miami outside of downtown and Miami Beach. I am just calling you out on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal813
Where did I say there is nothin noteworthy outside of downtown and Miami Beach???
Well you wrote and I quote “both really do quite poorly outside of their downtowns, barring Miami Beach.” That certainly sounds like you don’t think there are any urban neighborhoods in Miami worthy of attention outside of those two areas. That actually would have been a fair statement — 20 years ago. But certainly not today. Midtown is a great mixed-use neighborhood that keeps getting better and better. Wynwood is one of the coolest neighborhoods in North America with one of the best restaurant scenes. Miami Design District has an amazing collection of retail and is stunning especially after dark (see video unthread). Even Downtown Coral Gables (aka Miracle Mile) has come a long way in the last few years (after a 2-year redevelopment project) and is now buzzing on weekends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal813
For the purpose of this thread, and I stand by this, the only urban nodes that compare in any way, shape or form to the urbanity of Toronto, are, in fact, Downtown and Miami Beach. The rest are small and scattered.
What is “the urbanity of Toronto”? I mean it’s not like all of Toronto looks like the Financial District. In fact, you can walk 15 minutes from the heart of Downtown Toronto and see detached single family homes. Obviously it is more urban than Miami overall — as it should be given it had a population over a quarter million before Miami was even born — but to say that Miami doesn’t have anything outside of Downtown and Miami Beach that even compares to Toronto is absurd. What are the great big urban nodes of Toronto — outside of its Downtown and a few adjacent neighborhoods that are technically still part of downtown, if we are doing apples to apples — that Miami should be looking to emulate? I like Toronto very much, but it’s not exactly a global poster child for great urbanity. Outside of its inner 5-10 sq.miles it is overwhelmingly dominated by SFH neighborhoods and non-descript apartment blocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal813
Finally, again, Fort Lauderdale was sleepy when I last went there, during a festive weekend. That was my experience. Why does this upset you? I decided to stay there, downtown one weekend, and it was disappointingly dead during the day.
It doesn’t upset me. I am just suggesting that your experience was not representative and so you should treat it as such. Someone posted a video upthread — taken on a random Monday in June no less — showing a buzzing scene on Las Olas and yet you seemed quite dismissive of it, which seems pretty characteristic of your attitude towards Miami-Ft Lauderdale overall.
I thought a big point of this thread was 'by the numbers' if not by the numbers than its just gets entirely subjective. Subjective is totally fine if that is the context of the thread, but all indicators are this is more an objective assessment based on your goalposts in the thread creation. I simply stated that it is likely Miami has a plethora of 400-499 ft highrises as well to counter the claim that most of Seattle's building are in that range. Clearly, Miami has more 500 ft plus scrapers than Seattle.
As for Toronto, I was providing context since the thread title is 'the next Toronto' - so for context Toronto has over 2000 highrises. Since you mentioned Toronto in the thread title lol..?? Not sure how that is a moot point!! Even your poll is based on big and tall - so big and tall what than? poles for pole dancing? If not buildings and skyscrapers as a way to 'grander' - than what are you talking about, more opera houses, theatres, Libraries, Amazon or Starbucks buildings - what? So, by all means provide the context you want for this thread (you are the OP no?), because it doesn't seem clear to me what you want out of the thread you created.
If you want to talk about grander in terms of DT Core concentration of development, or grander in terms of 'eye' appeal or other factors, I think you should have stated it when you created this thread. Otherwise, this thread is kind of rudderless and lost imo because you haven't provided enough context..
Thanks for this. It is aligned with what I am seeing in terms of completions. At least greater than 500' where Miami has almost 3 times as many v Seattle. So in terms of an objective lens, Miami should be easily winning this thread if we are talking buildings/Scrapers as a way to at least put some objectivity to 'grander' - Instead it is losing and we are awash in 'subjectivity' and showing video's of Pike Place Market, Seattle's waterfront, and how 'hopping' Seattle is in terms of ped traffic smh.
The difference in terms of 400+ between Miami and Seattle isnt nearly as dramatic as 500+ though. I dont have the numbers in front of me but its 60-something to 90-something.
I think you are a good and intelligent poster but when it comes to Miami you just sound like you have an axe to grind. I mean you are certainly entitled to your opinion and your anecdotal experiences — we all have cities we like and dislike, and that’s fine — but your perspective of Miami seems heavily distorted with misinformation and bias. You have previously said that Brickell City Centre is just one block (false), complained that there isn’t a good transit link between Downtown Miami and Ft Lauderdale (in fact there is — it’s called Brightline and it has provided a regular, express high speed train service between the two downtowns since 2018), dismissed Hollywood Broadwalk as a just a beach (it’s not — it’s a historic boardwalk without an analog anywhere else in Florida with a lovely walkable neighborhood adjacent to it) and basically brushed off all of Miami outside of downtown and Miami Beach. I am just calling you out on it.
I don't want to derail this anymore than it should, but... yes, Brickell City Centre is, in fact, one block.
I prefer Bayshore. THAT is an urban vibe to me. And yes, that part of Miami wooed me.
Brightline has a LONG ways to go before it can do anything to help Florida. As it is now, it does not serve as a proper commuter rail.
No, there is no "express rail" from Fort Lauderdale to Brickell.... And yes, I am annoyed by this, in general, in Florida. You HAVE to Uber.
The difference in terms of 400+ between Miami and Seattle isnt nearly as dramatic as 500+ though. I dont have the numbers in front of me but its 60-something to 90-something.
It is that dramatic. Seattle has 48 completed buildings over 400'. if you include what's U/C it brings the total to 61.
Miami has 101 completed buildings over 400' and just as many buildings U/C as Seattle, so the gap isn't closing anytime soon.
It is that dramatic. Seattle has 48 completed buildings over 400'. if you include what's U/C it brings the total to 61.
Miami has 101 completed buildings over 400' and just as many buildings U/C as Seattle, so the gap isn't closing anytime soon.
Fair enough. I stand corrected. But it's still a more fair representation to use the 400+ threshold for the comparison. With the 500+, Miami is triple Seattle. With 400+, it's less than double.
Either way, no one is arguing that Seattle is going to surpass Miami in terms of number of tall buildings anytime in the near future. The point is Seattle is still growing tremendously and the cluster of skyscrapers feels more like a traditional big city skyline. It's a big three-dimensional mass. Miami's is along the coastline so it has a different effect. Also - Seattle and its nearby suburbs have built a ton of mid-rise infill and the area is urbanizing at a rapid pace. There are aspects of Toronto's growth that are more prevalent in Seattle, but obviously in terms of mass construction of giant towers Miami is far ahead.
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal813
I don't want to derail this anymore than it should, but... yes, Brickell City Centre is, in fact, one block.
No, it is not one block.
Retail with hotel is presently 3 large city blocks along with 2 existing high rise condos—Reach and Rise. At least one more block, for now, remains undeveloped but there are plans underway led by Stephen Ross to develop a super tall office tower (One Brickell City Centre) as part of the ongoing project.
“Four levels of luxury, premium and world-class dining and entertainment are interconnected over three city blocks…”
Yes, of course, how disappointing that Miami doesn't have an express rail link to every hotel in Fort Lauderdale. Bad Miami, bad!
Seriously, though, you didn't even stay in Downtown Fort Lauderdale... That's like staying in a random hotel in Mississauga and complaining that you dont have a direct train link into Yorkville in Downtown Toronto. If you had stayed Downtown, you'd walk to the Brightline station and have a 35 minute train ride into Miami Central. Getting to Brickell is 2 extra stops on Metrorail or a short ride on the Metromover. If that's not a good rail link, I don't know what is.
The fact that you keep doubling down on blatantly false statements shows some irrational animus towards Miami. Oh well, have at it if it makes you feel better.
Oh jeez there you go again. Ok you can keep living in your alternative reality, but then don't be so surprised when people call you out on it.
Yes, of course, how disappointing that Miami doesn't have an express rail link to every hotel in Fort Lauderdale. Bad Miami, bad!
Seriously, though, you didn't even stay in Downtown Fort Lauderdale... That's like staying in a random hotel in Mississauga and complaining that you dont have a direct train link into Yorkville in Downtown Toronto. If you had stayed Downtown, you'd walk to the Brightline station and have a 35 minute train ride into Miami Central. Getting to Brickell is 2 extra stops on Metrorail or a short ride on the Metromover. If that's not a good rail link, I don't know what is.
The fact that you keep doubling down on blatantly false statements shows some irrational animus towards Miami. Oh well, have at it if it makes you feel better.
That's not where I stayed when I said I was downtown. I was at the Fairfield Inn.
Sorry I posted the wrong location. That one was saved in my Maps locations from a prior stay. (Cruise port area.) (There was beer and frustration involved from the NHL finals last night. Oops. )
We tried to take the train from downtown. Between the wait time and the travel time, it was going to be well over an hour. It runs once an hour at peak times. I mean... Charlotte, of all places, has a FAR better, more aggressive system. And it's $2.
Brightline is good for what it will eventually be (a high speed alternative to Amtrak.)
I don't dislike Miami at all. Again, I LOVED my last visit when I went to Bayshore, and took a boat into Biscayne Bay.
Last edited by Arcenal813; 06-27-2022 at 08:47 AM..
That's not where I stayed when I said I was downtown.
Sorry I posted the wrong location. That one was saved in my Maps locations from a prior stay. (Cruise port area.) (There was beer and frustration involved from the NHL finals last night. Oops. )
We tried to take the train from downtown. Between the wait time and the travel time, it was going to be well over an hour.
The link you just posted shows a trip time of 1hr and 10mins, which is actually quite impressive for a point-to-point trip time covering a distance of 29 miles in a fairly dense urban area. Yes of course, you need to get to the train station from wherever you are and then from the train station to wherever you are going. That's the case with any transit system in any city in the world (which is why private transport is usually faster for most trips -- not just in South Florida but almost everywhere). Most people I know commuting from the burbs into Manhattan spend easily around 1hr30mins to get to the office, including from locations not as far from Manhattan as Ft Lauderdale is from Miami. And NY has the best and most comprehensive transit system in North America.
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