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I haven't seen anything in what I've read on this sad case about the PRIOR religious beliefs/actions of the family. By that I mean: were the beliefs that are supposedly prompting them to make the decisions that led up to the present moment preceded by a history of faith-base life/decisions? Or were they (beliefs) prompted or at least heavily nurtured by outside people with no connection to the family?
And here's where I'm going with this, hopefully staying on topic.
You can't just refuse to pay taxes suddenly and say you're a tax protestor and get your way.
There has been a pretty high bar to determine conscientious objector status. You couldn't just suddenly say "I'm anti-war" and be exempted.
I sort of feel the same way about certain religious-ish beliefs when they contradict widely established ideas about things like polygamy, incest, and in this case, extreme end-of-life situations.
I have to believe that to a large degree the family is being used by a few parties with an agenda and under the cloak of religiosity. And I think that is regrettable.
You absolutely are on topic, elhelmete. It would be wonderful if the family (or their attorney) could name their church name, location or Pastor's name. The family states religious objections as their reason. I have no problem with them stating that if others can vouch that the family has been practicing their religion for X years and the religion teaches Y, I may not agree for myself, but at least there should be church leaders and doctrine to review. I've seen none of that.
In some ways, I think you get right to the core of where conflict started. I'd be very surprised if CHO didn't request more education about the family's beliefs. Exactly where a Pastor or other religious leader could have helped.
What I'm totally unclear of is whether the family has extreme religious beliefs or if that was an easy answer one or more "advisor" recommended they use for their answer.
What kind of advice is the family receiving from Dr. Fellus and his foundation?
Ringo1,
You ask one of the pressing questions bothering me. I've searched extensively and cannot find what protocols or treatment recommendations are being suggested. So odd how info leaked out on the west coast about "treatment," yet nothing so far from the Foundation. I don't even know where the teen's body is. I don't know if the Foundation has inpatient beds or not. Maybe we'll find a Case Report or other information soon. I've read some of their publications and can't find specifics for "Deep Comas."
Please anyone post if you find anything about treatment.
I know you're much more medically qualified than I am, MSR.
If it was my child, she would be buried and at peace by now, and i would be in deep grief, but I would be at peace too. I believe there is such a thing as purgatory or limbo, or whatever a person wants to call it, and I believe it is the living's duty to release the soul from such a terrible state of non-life and non-death.
I hope the family has made the right decision by now. This has been going on far longer than I could ever abide. I too, only have one daughter. Even though mine is much older, this is something where age makes very little difference.
What kind of advice is the family receiving from Dr. Fellus and his foundation?
Ringo,
I really appreciate your post. I've seen nothing of advice or treatment.
I searched over two hours today in Clinical Trials.Gov and another website to see what type of clinical trials this Foundation is doing. I couldn't find any. So they currently aren't a research site with established FDA rules, protections and oversights.
Nonetheless, they could be "treating" this teen's body whatever way they decide is what they want to pursue.
That's where this gets really frightening to me. How do we know they aren't growing cells from her body, with a plan to somehow see if new neurons can be grown in vitro (Test tube or other growth medium outside the body)? I am not saying they are, but it would be nice to know what treatment they provide what treatments they are using. Especially since some U.S. Gov. Provides some of their funding.
There are too many possibilities of what they could be doing and no information. Plus seeking collaborations overseas is scary to me.
I know you're much more medically qualified than I am, MSR.
If it was my child, she would be buried and at peace by now, and i would be in deep grief, but I would be at peace too. I believe there is such a thing as purgatory or limbo, or whatever a person wants to call it, and I believe it is the living's duty to release the soul from such a terrible state of non-life and non-death.
I hope the family has made the right decision by now. This has been going on far longer than I could ever abide. I too, only have one daughter. Even though mine is much older, this is something where age makes very little difference.
Mike,
You and I are geographically close. We are also philosophically in agreement. Her body deserves the respect of her family. It also deserves the protection.
With no one knowing what "care" her body is receiving, one certainly could wonder about what type of experiments or "tests" her body has been subjected to.
While I'm not a lawyer or paralegal, I will always believe the Attorney had the Responsibility to find out exactly what treatment she would receive and submit it to CHO and the Court. I also believe the Judge screwed up big time. From my perspective, the judge will always be responsible for the sequence of events until someone finally allows this child' s soul and body to rest in peace.
Certainly her family has a role in all of this too, but I have more compassion for them vs. others who potentially told them what they wanted to hear.
Since you and I send PMS back and forth plus know how our region (200-300 miles radius) respects brain dead patients and their families, I agree this teen's spirit/soul or whatever word fits the best for the reader, is out of her physical body but can't progress to where it belongs.
The family says they are Christian. Shouldn't there be comfort letting her spirit/soul go to be with Jesus? And I don't mean this disrespectfully in anyway, but wouldn't Jesus want her body to be at peace and rest? At least that is my belief about Jesus and the afterlife.
The Grieving and Mourning process are so very personal. I appreciate you sharing part of how you would be struggling. I think we all would, but how many others we would tell our most tender and fragile feelings to vs. decide who could be in a support group or a larger support network, or formal support group would be an individual choice. And those choices could change when healing started.
Thanks for posting here, Mike. Since we post in the same state or regional threads often, it really means a lot to me you'd post here too.
MSR (One of Your CDF ' S Closest Neighbors)
Last edited by Mtn. States Resident; 01-25-2014 at 12:04 AM..
With no one knowing what "care" her body is receiving, one certainly could wonder about what type of experiments or "tests" her body has been subjected to.
I see no reason to suspect that anything unethical would be going on with regards to experimentation. I doubt that the family would allow it.
Since the family has declined to even tell where she is, we do not even know if any physicians are involved in her care at all.
I see no reason to suspect that anything unethical would be going on with regards to experimentation. I doubt that the family would allow it.
Since the family has declined to even tell where she is, we do not even know if any physicians are involved in her care at all.
suzy,
I think it's the lack of details that have various groups wondering what a different facility/provider could offer that a CA facility couldn't.
Entire neurological careers have been dedicated to trying to find a way to get a brain to regenerate. My statement about possible anything unethical potentially being in the mix, with all due respect, I don't know if the family has the education, background or help of outside medical advisors to understand what certain medical terms mean. Perhaps they do understand and are willing to participate in anything.
Accurate information could certainly answer questions, including who is prescribing any medications, her body may be receiving.
At least one pharmaceutical company is aggressively working on neuro-regeneration in very carefully monitored trials. However, they do not accept brain dead patients.
No one would love to see neuro-regeneration more than I would both personally and professionally. I don't know the answers about how that could be done for a brain dead patient. I looked for animal models of that yesterday and couldn't find anything in PubMed.
I hope no unethical tests are occurring! There are too many red flags about the Foundation for me. Again, it wouldn't take more than five minutes for those providing medications and nutrition through the tube to give the press a summary sheet of her current "care" and who is providing it.
For me, any facility willing to provide "care" knew the risks of accepting a body after cross country transport from Oakland, CA to NJ. Why not go public, with family permission, with basic info if there is nothing to hide? It is true the family could be forbidding medical information to be released just like they did at CHO.
I like your comment and the discussion it could generate.
Following up with Ringo1 ' s question a different way I found a group of five rehab hospitals in NJ where the doctor mentioned has privileges. I only looked at one when I saw one of their listed specialties is the "Severe Disorders of Consciousness" SDOC. It states it is a "pioneering program addresses the needs of individuals who are in a coma, vegetative or minimally-conscious state."
I don't want to post that facility's name. I've probably listed enough information those who want to find the facility and read more can.
Following up with Ringo1 ' s question a different way I found a group of five rehab hospitals in NJ where the doctor mentioned has privileges. I only looked at one when I saw one of their listed specialties is the "Severe Disorders of Consciousness" SDOC. It states it is a "pioneering program addresses the needs of individuals who are in a coma, vegetative or minimally-conscious state."
I don't want to post that facility's name. I've probably listed enough information those who want to find the facility and read more can.
MSR
I notice that brain death is conspicuously absent from that list. How do you reestablish circulation to a brain that has none? Cells deprived of oxygen and nutrients die. That cannot be regenerated. Even if by some miracle it would be possible to transplant healthy brain cells into that environment, they would die, too.
The only "experiment" I can envision is to see how long the heart of someone who has no brain can be kept beating artificially. When Jahi's heart does stop, will her mother demand she have a pacemaker installed? How long will Dolan continue to foster her delusion that Jahi is alive?
Mtn. States Resident, I want to take a moment and acknowledge what a tremendous job you have done with this thread. I don't know if I have ever followed a thread so well moderated. You constantly address each issue and infuse with new information all the while treating everybody with the utmost respect! Kudos to you
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I Can't Find It
