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Every day a person is in jail is one less chance he has of committing another crime. The recidivism rate for criminals is very high no matter what sentence they get. Makes sense to keep them out of society for as long as possible.
Your article clearly gave the parameters for federal mail theft.
Then, in the very last case, they noted that even someone stealing from a porch was charged with theft.
Here's the actual law, on what constitutes Theft of USPS Mail. No, leaving an item on a porch doesn't pertain. The closest it comes, is mail LEFT FOR PICK UP on or adjacent to a USPS postal box.
And read your second link. It specifically agrees with me. Doesn't pertain to articles left on porches:
Under US Code 18 Section 1708, mail theft is defined as taking any piece of mail that is not your own for any purpose. A piece of mail can be any letter, postal card, package, box or bag. Mail theft can result from stealing from private mailboxes, collection boxes, postal workers or mail trucks.
Even though that reality doesn't fit "your narrative" as they say.
With all due respect I think you are trying a bit too hard to find a loophole that doesn't exist.
Quote:
18 U.S.C. § 1708 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 18. Crimes and Criminal Procedure § 1708. Theft or receipt of stolen mail matter generally
Whoever steals, takes, or abstracts, or by fraud or deception obtains, or attempts so to obtain, from or out of any mail, post office, or station thereof, letter box, mail receptacle, or any mail route or other authorized depository for mail matter, or from a letter or mail carrier, any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or abstracts or removes from any such letter, package, bag, or mail, any article or thing contained therein, or secretes, embezzles, or destroys any such letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein; or
Whoever steals, takes, or abstracts, or by fraud or deception obtains any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein which has been left for collection upon or adjacent to a collection box or other authorized depository of mail matter; or
Whoever buys, receives, or conceals, or unlawfully has in his possession, any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein, which has been so stolen, taken, embezzled, or abstracted, as herein described, knowing the same to have been stolen, taken, embezzled, or abstracted--
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
I think they have all the bases covered. I would say that "or any mail route" pretty much covers any place that mail might be left. I don't know how it could possibly get there, if it is not on a mail route.
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Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz
With all due respect I think you are trying a bit too hard to find a loophole that doesn't exist.
I think they have all the bases covered. I would say that "or any mail route" pretty much covers any place that mail might be left. I don't know how it could possibly get there, if it is not on a mail route.
I don't agree that it covers that. USPS never dropped packages, unsupervised, on porches. It's only very recent, and the law hasn't changed to cover that. Used to be, if the package didn't fit in your mailbox the postman might have tried to hand deliver it, or failing that, would put a note in your mailbox that a package was waiting for you at the post office. It was never just left, unsupervised, on your porch. USPS theft laws didn't predict that would happen, and don't cover that scenario.
The bigger picture of this thread I started, I don't want the theft of a "package" on a doorstep to automatically be a felony. That's craziness.
Really. Can you imagine. The theft of a "package" left on a doorstep being a felony. That would cover a soccer ball that was left behind at soccer practice that the coach put in a grocery sack and left on the player's front porch. Some other kid happens onto the porch, sees the soccer ball and takes it.
Do you really want that to be a felony? Speaking only for myself, I don't. And that's the way this law is loosely written.
Something does have to be done, but this constant ramping up of charges to higher and higher prison sentences isn't the solution for petty crime. It's been shown time and again that stiffer penalties for crimes doesn't work; it's the surety that they'll be caught and suffer SOME consequence is more effective.
What I'm hearing coming on the horizon is a way to deliver packages into a secure box on the porch. Maybe something with a trap door, maybe a code that will be sent with the package order, etc.
And certainly, anything of real value shouldn't just be left outside where anything can happen to it.
Stealing a package from Amazon shouldn't be treated in the courts the same way as, for example, attempted murder.
And it looks to me like this would put that crime right in that category.
I bet if some of your stuff is ever stolen you will change your tune.
I don't agree that it covers that. USPS never dropped packages, unsupervised, on porches. It's only very recent, .
B.S. As usual. The USPS has been leaving packages on front porches for years.
And even if you're weren't completely wrong about this, there's still the matter of opening someone else's mail being a felony. I know you think it's completely legal because of a receptionist opening corporate mail, but guess what. It doesn't parallel.
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Originally Posted by WMak70
I bet if some of your stuff is ever stolen you will change your tune.
I've had stuff stolen; or at least misdelivered, and I don't have any way to know which is which. I've had stuff that UPS has stated was "delivered" that we never got, so they either put it somewhere else, or someone stole it.
I've sent things that have had the same result.
All in all, 5 items that mysteriously didn't arrive as expected.
But no, I don't want the person who stole them - if that's what happened - to be charged with a felony.
And I don't want to sound like a "holier than thou", but honestly, if I'm sending something of real value, it's not going to be left on the porch. That's just . . . irresponsible. I also don't take my diamond ring off and leave it on the bar when I go to the restroom.
If you have something of value, don't be a cheapskate and deliver it dropped in the yard.
Really. Can you imagine. The theft of a "package" left on a doorstep being a felony. That would cover a soccer ball that was left behind at soccer practice that the coach put in a grocery sack and left on the player's front porch. Some other kid happens onto the porch, sees the soccer ball and takes it.
More B.S.
Quote:
A new Texas law set to go into effect Sept. 1 will make it a felony to steal anything considered mail, including letters, postcards, packages and other sealed items.
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Originally Posted by Metlakatla
B.S. As usual. And even if you're weren't completely wrong about this, there's still the matter of opening someone else's mail being a felony. I know you think it's completely legal because of a receptionist opening corporate mail, but guess what. It doesn't parallel.
I open mail all the time that comes to my organization's mailbox. It's delivered to the proper mailbox as addressed, but who knows who the heck that person is on the address. "John Smith, my organization's address". I open it, and if it appears not to be valuable I pitch it. If it looks important, I return it to the post office when I'm there next and say this arrived in my organization mailbox, when I opened it, it looks important, please return to sender. They don't bat an eye. No handcuffs come out. I've written "return to sender" on the taped up envelope.
I guess if push came to shove, I could say I get so many pieces of mail in that box that I wasn't paying attention to the recipient address - I just opened it and then realized it wasn't intended for us.
It's never come to that, though. They just say thanks, and put it somewhere in the "return to sender" box. Or maybe the trash, I don't know what they do with it.
It would seem if I was committing felonies basically every month, someone would have brought that to my attention. Shrug.
Sometimes, Metlakatla, other people have more experience and know more than you do. You might want to choke your motor when challenging people you don't know, and don't know what they know and what their experience is.
I open mail all the time that comes to my organization's mailbox. It's delivered to the proper mailbox as addressed, but who knows who the heck that person is on the address. "John Smith, my organization's address". I open it, and if it appears not to be valuable I pitch it. If it looks important, I return it to the post office when I'm there next and say this arrived in my organization mailbox, when I opened it, it looks important, please return to sender. They don't bat an eye. No handcuffs come out. I've written "return to sender" on the taped up envelope.
I guess if push came to shove, I could say I get so many pieces of mail in that box that I wasn't paying attention to the recipient address - I just opened it and then realized it wasn't intended for us.
It's never come to that, though. They just say thanks, and put it somewhere in the "return to sender" box. Or maybe the trash, I don't know what they do with it.
It would seem if I was committing felonies basically every month, someone would have brought that to my attention. Shrug.
Sometimes, Metlakatla, other people have more experience and know more than you do. You might want to choke your motor when challenging people you don't know, and don't know what they know and what their experience is.
Why can't you understand that opening mail that comes to your work is quite different than stealing mail/packages addresses to someone else off their porches?
LOL. You know nothing, and it's a stretch even for you to equate stealing packages with accidentally opening a piece of mail not addressed to you.
Quote:
Sometimes, Metlakatla, other people have more experience and know more than you do.
This is clearly not one of those times.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 06-19-2019 at 09:46 PM..
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