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The federal statute 18 USC Section 1702 states that it is illegal for individuals to open correspondence that is addressed to other individuals. However, if you accidentally open someone else’s mail, you have not committed a crime. The law was created to punish individuals who knowingly open mail that is addressed to someone else. These type of people may be looking for personal information that they can abuse or valuable items that they can steal.
It's a real law with real consequences and wasn't enacted for situations such as you describe. Sorry you can't see the difference between accidentally opening a letter not addressed to you and sneaking up on someone's porch and intentionally stealing packages.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 06-19-2019 at 09:45 PM..
I really don't understand this. A felony is an egregious act, that comes with very serious consequences.
Package theft of items that sometimes are virtually worthless does NOT rise to the level of a felony. We are blurring the lines between petty crimes, and serious ones that need to be dealt with seriously.
Really? I order a book from Amazon for 15 bucks, and if someone takes it it's a FELONY punishable by up to 10 years in prison and 10,000 fine?
I truly don't care what happens to these thieves when they are caught, or whether the packages they stole is worth $1 or $1 million. That is what they deserve for taking something that does not belong to them. If making it a felony will deter some of this type of behavior, that is fine with me.
I agree. Enough of catering to these damn thieves. I swear our country is just too soft. If the mail is a felony, why not a package delivered by another carrier? Should be the same either way. Put them away and see if they straighten up in jail.
I can sort of see Clara's original point if all packages were $15 books from Amazon like she stated in her first post, but that's not the reality. There are a lot of seniors in my community who depend on Amazon Pantry for regular shipments of grocery staples, and they may not have the money to replace those items when they're stolen and perhaps have transportation obstacles and can't just run to the grocery store (Amazon issues refunds but I don't think it's an immediate process). Maybe their food isn't worth much money, but it's what they have.
And of course most people are going to be mindful on delivery days when an expensive item is expected to arrive, but this scum follows delivery vehicles and grabs stuff up minutes after it's placed on the porch.
What Clara can't or won't understand, though, is that it's already a federal felony if the carrier is the USPS. I have no problem with individual states opting to make it a state felony and to include all carriers, especially since it's become such a problem.
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For those who do, please continue this conversation without me. I don't understand you, and it's unlikely you'll ever understand me.
Probably for the best, since you don't understand the difference between a receptionist opening corporate mail in the course of her assigned duties and someone stealing packages off a porch.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 06-19-2019 at 11:18 PM..
It warrants a law like this because online shopping is becoming ubiquitous and these thieves just drive around following delivery trucks. That is unacceptable.
We've lost our way when strangers come onto our property to steal items, the value of which is unknown to them, BTW, and people think it shouldn't be dealt with seriously.
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Originally Posted by markjames68
This is the correct answer. The value is unknown, so it could be worth $50 or $5000. The thieves are hoping for the latter.
Someone stealing a $50 shirt from JC Penny knows it is $50 not $5000. Someone stealing a car worth $5000 knows it’s not worth $50.
This is how I feel about it, too. People who steal packages off people's porches or front steps have no idea what's inside and hope it's something expensive so they can sell it or enjoy its use themselves. If it's food they don't care for or some cheap, not that special item, it probably gets tossed.
Also I found a case on point under the earlier cited statute (18 USC 1708) where people were charged and convicted for stealing USPS packages off people's steps/porches. It's US v. May, 9th Circuit, February 2013, where a couple drove through Vancouver, WA neighborhoods through all of December, looking for houses with packages out front. One would stay in the car while the other would run up and steal them. They were charged under that mail theft statute, pled guilty, and the only issue on appeal involved sentencing (how much restitution they should pay, basically).
Items found in their car ranged from children's toys to medication to airline uniforms, some of the items were still in priority mail boxes which had the address labels removed. USPS in the area temporarily changed the mode of delivery of packages in December that year (2010) because of so many thefts, requiring mail carriers to only leave packages with people who were home, so not leave them in front of the house, which resulted in very few packages actually being delivered and required the local post office to extend its business hours and have more workers on so people could come pick up their packages in person.
From what I've gathered looking into the statute a bit on a legal research site, looking at short summaries of cases that have decided key points on it, the law prohibits stealing from a "receptacle" or "authorized depository" for mail, which includes residential mailboxes and which, in the context of packages, presumably also includes one's porch, steps, in between a storm door and front door, etc. Wherever a mail carrier typically will leave a package outside your door seems to be fair game, as it also was decided to be fair game in many cases when it came to letters left places other than a mailbox for various reasons. Once the mail is delivered and the person who it is addressed to takes possession of it/removes it from that depository, theft of it after, apparently, can no longer be mail theft. It seems mail theft occurs whenever someone intentionally intercepts mail sometime before it reaches the recipient/addressee, knowing it is not for them. So it could be from the post office, from the USPS truck, from the mail carrier him or herself, or from a mailbox, front porch, under a door, etc.
One case also found clear intent that Congress intended to punish the theft of mail regardless of its value, which I think is an interesting parallel in this context. No, we're not talking federal USPS-related crimes, but in the modern era with the internet and Amazon Prime and quick and easy ways for private companies to send us goods via various common carriers or on their own, I see protecting against stealing any package, not just one from the USPS, important. As part of their sentences for stealing mail, defendants often have to pay restitution to the victims - the people whose mail was stolen - if something of value was taken, so it isn't just about stealing from or intercepting the federal government, it's also about the people whose items or money was stolen. Why not make all package theft a felony?
I bet after a few of them are put away for awhile, it will make others think twice about doing it. Right now, the law simply slaps their wrists, so they go right back at it. Put a few away for years, and that is a whole lot more serious.
Sometimes, Metlakatla, other people have more experience and know more than you do. You might want to choke your motor when challenging people you don't know, and don't know what they know and what their experience is.
Sometimes, Clara, other people have more experience and know more than you do.
In your case, it would be the 9th Circuit Court.
You might want to read this and "choke your motor." It backs up what I've tried to tell you. It even cited 18 U.S. Code §1708 as the applicable statute. You know, the one you tried to use a "proof" that stealing mail off porches isn't a felony.
You do understand what the 9th Circuit Court is, don't you?
I'm not sure why you started in on me because I posted a simple truth, but it's far from the first time.
I suppose the only thing you can do since you feel so strongly about this is stop ordering $15 books from Amazon in order to reduce temptation for the scum who steal off porches.
Last edited by Metlakatla; 06-20-2019 at 12:12 AM..
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Might make people think twice about stealing.
Again, even though I know you can't understand this:
