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There is video evidence, which is better then witnesses. But there are probably many witnesses too. If this ever goes to trial I expect there will be witnesses.
Damn. Sorry to say that happened exactly as I had suspected - actually that was worse. He was more than negligent - that was just bizarre. He should never have been permitted to be in charge of a child.
Was the railing by the open window occupied by another guest before the grandfather took that spot? I find it odd that he would squat down by the pole as if he was waiting for that spot to open up. Were there no chairs where he could keep an eye on her? He could have easily lead the toddler back to the play area that was more appropriate for her but chose to watch her in the bar area. He also seemed to be the only adult in charge of her care. I would not call this an accident. He was careless on purpose.
Damn. Sorry to say that happened exactly as I had suspected - actually that was worse. He was more than negligent - that was just bizarre. He should never have been permitted to be in charge of a child.
Yes, that's why I suggested intentional. Negligence to me equals accidental. He lifts her up and over on purpose--
But perhaps I don't quite understand the legal terms.
^^ Best view is a side view of the incident at almost exactly 11 minutes in to the above linked video.
It looks like he walks up and leans forward looking out the window. Then he picks up the kid up to his shoulder level and swings her over the rail and almost throws her out then leans back out again looking, after she's fallen. These are all look like quick movements. No hesitation or holding her on the rail, which it's often sounded like they were standing there a while. No, he almost immediately "throws" her out the window. Over 30 seconds later people turn around as he presumably starts speaking loudly. Very strange. It almost looks intentional. Not saying it is. It's just mind boggling.
^^ Best view is a side view of the incident at almost exactly 11 minutes in to the above linked video.
It looks like he walks up and leans forward looking out the window. Then he picks up the kid up to his shoulder level and swings her over the rail and almost throws her out then leans back out again looking, after she's fallen. These are all look like quick movements. No hesitation or holding her on the rail, which it's often sounded like they were standing there a while. No, he almost immediately "throws" her out the window. Over 30 seconds later people turn around as he presumably starts speaking loudly. Very strange. It almost looks intentional. Not saying it is. It's just mind boggling.
^^ Best view is a side view of the incident at almost exactly 11 minutes in to the above linked video.
It looks like he walks up and leans forward looking out the window. Then he picks up the kid up to his shoulder level and swings her over the rail and almost throws her out then leans back out again looking, after she's fallen. These are all look like quick movements. No hesitation or holding her on the rail, which it's often sounded like they were standing there a while. No, he almost immediately "throws" her out the window. Over 30 seconds later people turn around as he presumably starts speaking loudly. Very strange. It almost looks intentional. Not saying it is. It's just mind boggling.
It looks like he throws her over immediately. That was my first thought. But from the other angle it looks like he is holding her for those 30 seconds. When the other guests finally realize something happened, he had dropped her just seconds before and not 30 seconds before.
Okay, for the sake of argument thus far these theories have been floated -- pardon the pun (although, Sockeye66, I do believe the Occam's Razor principle):
1. Accident
2. Color blindness preventing him from seeing the open window
3. Sadistic tendencies
4. Dementia with hallucinations
5. Mental impairment due to alcohol, drugs or lack of sleep
6. Collusion among family members
Anyone care to add any others?
PS: I can think of one other possibility that is dependent upon other factors but I think I'll keep it to myself for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saibot
I'm pulling here from the comments on the FB site. Take them for what they're worth, which may not be much.
Some people there speculated that since he is NOT the child's biological grandfather, there may have been some relationship-based reasons for him to resent her. For instance, the grandmother (who is the biological grandma) was giving her too much attention and neglecting him, so he wanted to do away with the baby. Frankly, I think that's far-fetched, but grandpa did lean way out of the window and look down for quite a while. If you were inclined toward this theory, you could say that he was mentally measuring the distance and considering that spot as a potential location for his crime. Also, his reported first words could be considered suspicious. Instead of screaming something like "Oh my God! Chloe! Chloe! Aaagh!" and rushing down to look for her body, he supposedly said "I thought there was glass!" as though he knew what was going to happen and was immediately trying to present himself as innocent.
Also far-fetched is the idea that the whole thing was deliberately planned so that the family would get a big cash payout from the cruise line. The facts as reported above could also be bent to support this theory (seeking out an open window, looking out and around, immediately calling attention to the lack of glass as though the fault lay with the ship and not with him).
After watching the video, it is clear he was careless on purpose. The drop may have been unintended but he took no steps to make sure she wouldn't have dropped. If the drop was intentional, I would add another motivation: he didn't want to be her babysitter during his vacation.
It is possible he enjoyed tormenting her, but did not mean to kill her. Some people think it is funny to say and do things that are scary, humiliating, etc.
Reminds me of a couple of male relatives who did that when I was small. They wouldn’t let up until I was crying in terror.
There ARE adults who are deeply resentful of children who are always the focus of attention in mixed company and will try to hurt or terrorize them if they think they can get away with it. It could just be my personal history talking but I think that’s what happened here.
Reminds me of a couple of male relatives who did that when I was small. They wouldn’t let up until I was crying in terror.
There ARE adults who are deeply resentful of children who are always the focus of attention in mixed company and will try to hurt or terrorize them if they think they can get away with it. It could just be my personal history talking but I think that’s what happened here.
But I think the vast majority of those cases take steps to make sure they get away with it without actually showing they physically hurt you. In other words, you walk away alive because they worked within certain boundaries. I am not so sure that is what happened here. What he did was sloppy.
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