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Then please give me some links to NEW 3000 square foot homes within 30-45 miles of say Anaheim or downtown San Diego for $250K, on an average lot, with upgrades, a 3 car garage, 3500 square feet, and a home theater. They were not there when I left for $200K about 15 years ago and I'm sure they are not now.
Can't give you an example of that and neither can DWONG! His link to Centex is not relevant because Oxnard and Ventura are not close to Anaheim or SD as you requested. Sorry I didn't have time to pull up the San Diego links, but I did list the cities where you can find such a place. 250k not happening, but $375 to $425 is, again w/ the slightly higher wages and taxes it nearly offsets (or close to it
I did show homes out in Lake Elsinore and here was the best home we saw:
4 bdrm 3 baths, 2 car garage 2995 sq ft built in 2006. REO asking $310,000.
And Lake Elsinore is about 43 miles from Disney in Anaheim. Now I am sure even in Lake Elsinore what usamom is asking for is more than 250,000. Yes Lake Elsinore was what she was looking for most likely. Hey that's a great deal and is only 43 miles to Disneyland, not to mention all the other attractions in the area. And as I mentioned, the taxes and wages will cover teh $60k difference in price
The point is that out here you have to move a good distance out to even find a nice home in the 250,000 price range. I am showing homes to the average working family with 2-3 kids. And they are going to be commuting on avg 60 miles ea way to their jobs. One is a Marine recruiter and him and his wife want to be in ORANGE CO. but it ain't gonna happen at this time. So they are looking at Lake Elsinore, Riverside County. I have to believe that no one wants to commute 60 miles/120 daily to a job. Now it's not as easy as finding a job closer for some depending on what field they are in. Trust me one client has been looking. The Marine has no choice right now. But you don't have the choices that you have in DFW. I completely agree w/ your point. CA is not for the working family, that's not an observation I beg to even touch Unless you have a doctor or lawyer for parents, then you're ok. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to commute, but thing is jobs do exist in those areas as well (Riverside and San Bernadino counties metro is similar to DFW (a little behind, but close - 4 million population). Again, true you have more choices in DFW, CA is brutal if you start going to outlying areas.
Dwong what you are not looking at is that if someone was going to move to Dallas or Ft Worth areas they have the same options in home prices on both sides. Here in CA we don't. Let's say someone works at Boeing in Long Beach or gets hired there. They come here looking for a home at least 3000 sq ft, 4 bdrms 2 car garage and they DONT want a commute. In the Lakewood, Long Beach areas they would be looking at... I am checking the MLS...
Two homes came up and one is $899,000 and the other is $969,000. Both in the best parts of Long Beach, Bixby and Los Altos areas. only 889k and 969k? Wow that's actually a good deal now! I wouldn't expect 3,00k sq ft or 4 bedrooms either moving to NY, CHI, Miami or SF either, people probably know that before hand.
Now granted the relo to Boeing can move to a 3/4 bdrm 1200 - 1600 sq ft for around $450 to under $600 grand in Lakewood or some decent parts of Long Beach. Some nice parts of North Long Beach there are homes in the mid 300's. But again you don't get the sq footage. Even if he was willing to commute say up to 20 miles he is not gonna find what he WANTS under 300.
Yes very true, you gotta move a little further away, not much for more sq footage, unless you're well off here. SQ footage... well in my opinion it's over-rated. Ask New Yorkers, they know better than people in CA - and people still want to live in NY on alot less sq ft. When I first started traveling to TX it was shocking the way it was to family visiting from TX. Everyone in TX (working class) can own a nice big home on a good plot of land. (Keep in mind 50% of CA land is fed own compared to 2% in TX and y'all got a lot more land so y'all can build forever and have no supply problems) Then to CA, very few own the big homes (well over 1 million). Then price tag shock as well. It's all preference. Like the big house and land, TX is for u. As for myself, it's just more work to clean and maintain - we love doing stuff outside our home in SoCal that we couldn't do elsewhere so that's why we choose here (for now). We love 2,000 sq ft on the hill looking at the ocean - it all depends on what you like
Dwong I really like the way you think. But help me out with something here. You seem to be really good with numbers. Let's say you got a single person making about 60 grand a yr out here in CA. And that is grossing 5,000 a month right? Now the rule of thumb is that no more than 30% of your gross income (some say 28%) should go towards the rent/mortgage. So that would be only $1500 right? So let's take a home in the price range of $300,000 being financed at 5.25% fixed for 30 yrs. Just with P & I alone I get 1656.61 and if I figure in prop taxes it's going to put it at around $2000 per month.
Now being realistic that 5 grand a month is only going to be approx. $3800 take home. Assuming deductions are fed, state tax, retirement or Soc Security, medical, etc.
That's over 50% of one's take home pay going towards a mortgage, etc.
Now let's go to DFW and say that same person even takes a pay cut of $10,000 since you keep comparing the better wages between the two. So that's $50,000 yr and $4166 mo. So he/she finds a home comparable in size for $165,000. Doing the same numbers the P&I is $911.14 and with approx tax at 2.8% we talking $1296. Which is almost right at the 30% rule. But I don't think the wages are that much lower in Dallas in some job markets.
So I am trying to see how that person can even survive in California with those numbers. Maybe that explains why we are in the top 10 states for foreclosures/REO's. And we placed 2nd on that list at some point.
Dwong I really like the way you think. But help me out with something here. You seem to be really good with numbers. Let's say you got a single person making about 60 grand a yr out here in CA. And that is grossing 5,000 a month right? Now the rule of thumb is that no more than 30% of your gross income (some say 28%) should go towards the rent/mortgage. So that would be only $1500 right? So let's take a home in the price range of $300,000 being financed at 5.25% fixed for 30 yrs. Just with P & I alone I get 1656.61 and if I figure in prop taxes it's going to put it at around $2000 per month.
Now being realistic that 5 grand a month is only going to be approx. $3800 take home. Assuming deductions are fed, state tax, retirement or Soc Security, medical, etc.
That's over 50% of one's take home pay going towards a mortgage, etc. You're not bad w/ numbers yourself. Totally agree so far....a person making $60k here is not buying a home here, not even close. It's a rarity - I mean true rarity to find a single person buy a home anywhere in the state. Unless you're a doctor or lawyer, not happening.
Now let's go to DFW and say that same person even takes a pay cut of $10,000 since you keep comparing the better wages between the two. So that's $50,000 yr and $4166 mo. So he/she finds a home comparable in size for $165,000. Doing the same numbers the P&I is $911.14 and with approx tax at 2.8% we talking $1296. Which is almost right at the 30% rule. But I don't think the wages are that much lower in Dallas in some job markets. No you are right on. Maybe the only place where wages are significantly different is in gov. My wife a teacher max here is $95k in most of TX areas where's she's taught before, her top is $60, some $55. Many parts of rural CA, they pay just as much (we're funded on daily attendance here so they live quite well in those parts of CA plus they need teachers more than metro areas do) Private field, ya not a good place cuz wages won't compensate. They pay u less to live here. It's the appeal (true, employers don't have to pay as much knowing the appeal of beaches and weather, etc)
So I am trying to see how that person can even survive in California with those numbers. Maybe that explains why we are in the top 10 states for foreclosures/REO's. And we placed 2nd on that list at some point.
Yes can u explain that to me that TX of all places where you don't need to make loads of cash to keep a home has a foreclosure problem? Anyways, Yes we do pay more towards our home here. But take 2 teacher's living together in CA or nurses, accountants etc. Everyday working jobs. Here, combined in their mid 30's they'll bring in $160k combined. Now buying that $400k house doesn't seem so far fetch does it grossing $15k a month? They can easily get a 500k house as well. Point being, single in your 20's making 60k here, you're renting a room. Married maybe early 30's - you can buy a house. Doctor/lawyer you can get one on your own. Again, very tough and not for everyone. Its a hussle here, like I've always said, CA dreamin is 5% of those who can afford it.
Yes very true, you gotta move a little further away, not much for more sq footage, unless you're well off here. SQ footage... well in my opinion it's over-rated. Ask New Yorkers, they know better than people in CA - and people still want to live in NY on alot less sq ft. When I first started traveling to TX it was shocking the way it was to family visiting from TX. Everyone in TX (working class) can own a nice big home on a good plot of land. (Keep in mind 50% of CA land is fed own compared to 2% in TX and y'all got a lot more land so y'all can build forever and have no supply problems) Then to CA, very few own the big homes (well over 1 million). Then price tag shock as well. It's all preference. Like the big house and land, TX is for u. As for myself, it's just more work to clean and maintain - we love doing stuff outside our home in SoCal that we couldn't do elsewhere so that's why we choose here (for now). We love 2,000 sq ft on the hill looking at the ocean - it all depends on what you like
Okay I think we misunderstood each other because you proved my point And yes the ocean *if* I could find something close to comparable for me when I was single was totally worth it.
[b]Yes can u explain that to me that TX of all places where you don't need to make loads of cash to keep a home has a foreclosure problem? Anyways, Yes we do pay more towards our home here. But take 2 teacher's living together in CA or nurses, accountants etc. Everyday working jobs. Here, combined in their mid 30's they'll bring in $160k combined. Now buying that $400k house doesn't seem so far fetch does it grossing $15k a month?
One thing that is readily apparent when talking to folks from California is that IF they own a home, they work to pay for it with little left over for other things (many of us on this forum consider the "other things" to be the things that increase our quality of life).
Combined, my wife and I make more than your example. Not only can we afford out home, which is 8 miles from downtown Dallas, 4-5 miles from Uptown/Knox-Hendersen, 2576 sq ft and there's a $400M Lake Highlands Town center with a light rail station being built about a 10 minute walk from my front door, but we also pay extra on that home and will probably have it paid off in 15-20 years. We max out our 401K and IRA's. We put money aside each month in special accounts for vacations and so we can pay cash for new vehicles. We even tithe to our church and donate both time and money to other charities.
Bottom line - we have a good quality of life, my stress levels are lower due to the lower COL and we save a lot of money for early retirement while still being able to afford nice vacations (leaving Friday with my wife and mother-in-law for Alaska [celebrating my MIL's 60th bday]). This lifestyle simply isn't an option in California.
It seems that the general thought process in CA is that you put a large percentage of your take home pay into your home, which is your "retirement nest egg". The problem with this theory is that equity isn't liquid. You have to sell it to pull that equity out, which means then you have to move to an area with a lower cost of living to be able to live off the difference. My wife and I will be able to stay in our home, won't have to move and won't have to make new friends. As a long-term planner, I like what TX has to offer. But this decision is a very personal one. Neither is right for everyone.
Now let's go to DFW and say that same person even takes a pay cut of $10,000 since you keep comparing the better wages between the two. So that's $50,000 yr and $4166 mo. So he/she finds a home comparable in size for $165,000. Doing the same numbers the P&I is $911.14 and with approx tax at 2.8% we talking $1296. Which is almost right at the 30% rule. But I don't think the wages are that much lower in Dallas in some job markets.
Salaries are not lower in DFW compared to SoCal. Just FYI.
Salaries are not lower in DFW compared to SoCal. Just FYI.
Good point. That was also brought out earlier in this thread.
Yes, a DINK couple in SoCal can probably make enough money to barely survive, which probably sets an upper limit to house inflation. The market will bear only so much. In Dallas, with the same income, a DINK couple has a far better quality of life.
BTW, DINK = Double Income, No Kids.
OK, here's a little bit of chest-expanding bragaddocio...
But in So Cal, you have the beach? Well, in Dallas, we have lots of beaches on the lakes, and the lake water is warmer and wetter than the Pacific. We have green forests and plains, and lots of running water in the creeks and rivers. And we have water activities and sports on our lakes as well. Where do you water ski in SoCal? Where can you paddle a kayak along a watercourse, or run a bass boat on a fishing expedition? The LA river?
Well, we have adjacent hills, albeit no tall mountains, and our state parks are better than Cali's. In Texas, they don't charge you for taking a shower. And we have more interesting towns and cities in driving distance.
Salaries are not lower in DFW compared to SoCal. Just FYI.
This is why I love post like this. My wife teaching in TX moved to CA and got a $16,000 raise as compared to TX. To go from $45k to $61 was a nice bump. Look up per capita income, we are slightly higher in SoCal, but not by much - at leat not enough to compensate for the COL. I've said this many times, gov jobs ya you rake in decent living (it keeps up with COL) - but private industry, it's about the same. So Mr. Charles, TX is just slightly lower. And that's all 5 major counties here... SD/LA/OC/Riverside/San Bernard
Good point. That was also brought out earlier in this thread.
Ok this is what makes this website so great. WE can all learn from eachother - I've gotten alot out of this myself. Living here I can tell y'all bout parts of SoCal many don't know about or don't see....
Yes, a DINK couple in SoCal can probably make enough money to barely survive, which probably sets an upper limit to house inflation. The market will bear only so much. In Dallas, with the same income, a DINK couple has a far better quality of life.
BTW, DINK = Double Income, No Kids.
OK, here's a little bit of chest-expanding bragaddocio...
But in So Cal, you have the beach? Well, in Dallas, we have lots of beaches on the lakes, and the lake water is warmer and wetter than the Pacific. We have green forests and plains, and lots of running water in the creeks and rivers. And we have water activities and sports on our lakes as well. Where do you water ski in SoCal? Where can you paddle a kayak along a watercourse, or run a bass boat on a fishing expedition? The LA river?
Yes of course we had thousands of miles of beaches, crowded and uncrowed depends on your scene. Lakes yes y'all do have em darn practically in the middle of the city. But guess what SoCAl has alot of lakes too! U don't see them in the heart of the city - that's geographically impossible -an ocean near a lake in a desert (which Southern CA is classfied as) it can't happen. Our lakes you can do just as much as the lakes in TX - we don't have as many, but they're all around. Go 45 miles away from the beach, lakes are to be found. Mind you quite scenic bc they're between massive mountains. Colder water - no argument there, unless it hits mid 80's here, it isn't warm. Green forests and plains eh? SD/LA/OC and Riverside/San Bernard have real forests on high mountains... People take their boats to the bays and lakes here. Ski in Socal - the bay or the lakes! Rivers and creeks, they're here too! I sample water from the creek - I should know! Plenty of fishing in our lakes, not to mention the ocean has plenty of creatures too!
Now visiting the metros, you'r not going to see the lakes or forests go an hour or so and the scenery changes dramatically so does the climate (last week my wife had snow at her school at the while it was 75 at the beach in SD county).
Well, we have adjacent hills, albeit no tall mountains, and our state parks are better than Cali's. In Texas, they don't charge you for taking a shower. And we have more interesting towns and cities in driving distance.
Hills? Compare SD to DFW - sorry those arn't hills. State parks better? I wouldn't know - alot of ours are beaches - but mostly city parks here. Keep in mind the National parks here are quite amazing. Anyone been to Yosemite? Lake Tahoe, Golden Gate, Mission BAy (not all fed) rafting in (I forget the name), Death Valley (I'm kidding about that one)
Interesting towns in a driving distance - wow, ur kidding right? Drive from SD to SF you'll see just about every kind of town you'd want to see. Or just go from SF to half way down the state - or just leave LA and wonder a bit. Heck, Pasenda, Santa Monica, Laguna Beach are all very distinct from one another.
Well, hopefully this helps bring some new info for those out there.
One thing that is readily apparent when talking to folks from California is that IF they own a home, they work to pay for it with little left over for other things (many of us on this forum consider the "other things" to be the things that increase our quality of life). True, true. Family from TX visits here all the time - I don't know a weekend that one isn't here this summer....
Combined, my wife and I make more than your example. Not only can we afford out home, which is 8 miles from downtown Dallas, 4-5 miles from Uptown/Knox-Hendersen, 2576 sq ft and there's a $400M Lake Highlands Town center with a light rail station being built about a 10 minute walk from my front door, but we also pay extra on that home and will probably have it paid off in 15-20 years. We max out our 401K and IRA's. We put money aside each month in special accounts for vacations and so we can pay cash for new vehicles. We even tithe to our church and donate both time and money to other charities. Good for you and your wife to have such a nice living. Hey that's all good and great for y'all.
Bottom line - we have a good quality of life, my stress levels are lower due to the lower COL and we save a lot of money for early retirement while still being able to afford nice vacations (leaving Friday with my wife and mother-in-law for Alaska [celebrating my MIL's 60th bday]). This lifestyle simply isn't an option in California. Yes it is an option here- I don't like when family visits and says they can't make it here, of course ya can -hard but it can be done.
It seems that the general thought process in CA is that you put a large percentage of your take home pay into your home, which is your "retirement nest egg". The problem with this theory is that equity isn't liquid. You have to sell it to pull that equity out, which means then you have to move to an area with a lower cost of living to be able to live off the difference. My wife and I will be able to stay in our home, won't have to move and won't have to make new friends. As a long-term planner, I like what TX has to offer. But this decision is a very personal one. Neither is right for everyone.
Well alot of family that bout say 25-30 years ago are doing just fine now. That house that cost them low 100's or low 200's then is worth multimillions now. So when they retire they can go elsewhere or downgrade - totally up to them. It is spending power they have. (keep in mind they pay 1980 taxes on it too!)
Here's an interesting article for y'all. SoCal counties have the most millionaires than anywhre else by FAR! Break the number down further it's pretty much 1in30 people here are millionaires (does not include ur house either!). So like I stated before CA dreaming is for the 5% of those you can do it. It's a struggle, but if you can make it here you can make it anywhere.... ABC News: L.A. County Home to Most Millionaires
Brian
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