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I agree, if you have a weight problem, at minimum throw out the refined grains. Nutrients are destroyed during milling anyway and artificial nutrients added back in. You are correct - there are no nutrients in grains that you cannot obtain from other foods.
Addressing the bolded part:
There are also no nutrients in food that you cannot obtain from vitamins and supplements, and fiber shakes.
And yet - most of us eat food. And billions of people worldwide are not obese, and manage to eat food. Including grain.
The "secret" to having a healthy weight, is healthy eating and healthy exercise. Eat for health, not for weight. If something makes you not feel well, then don't eat it. If something makes you feel great, then eat it. If something is neutral, but healthy for you, then find a way to make it taste good. Or find a reasonable substitute.
It's not calories in, calories out. But it's SO much more than just cutting out specific foods.
Millions of people who eat pasta, rice, and/or bread, and have no problem controlling their hunger or weight, disagree.
Traditionally a heavily starch diet is a peasant diet. Economics thus limits amount food one can afford. THEY COULDN'T AFFORD ENOUGH EXCESS FOOD OF ANY KIND TO GET FAT. Post WWII is first time in history people can afford as much food (especially cheapest starchy foods) as they want year round. Wages of peasant class up, food prices as percentage of income are down, though so did quality of food available. Excuse the pun, but there is no free lunch, use chemicals to increase production and quality of the food goes down. Before that it was even for farmers it was more a feast or famine type eating stye. Food most available at harvest time.
To prove my point look at obesity problems globally. Feast or famine peasants moved to the big city with better paying jobs with steady income. There is also a rise in obesity and T2 diabetes. Coincidence, dont think so. And its on rise cause we have the biggest urban population WORLDWIDE that we have ever had. Yep FAT Chinese in China are not that rare anymore. T2 diabetes worldwide and in ever younger people. It used to be most common in people in 50s and 60s. The days of rural subsistence agriculture is mostly over. For one thing peasants cant afford land. Or its stripped from them for large scale corporate ag or by decades long droughts.
Some of economics is reversing as the chasm between lowest paid workers and highest paid continues to ever widen. Everything becomes priced more and more for those on the upper end of wage scale. And mentality of go finance your ice cream cone if you want one.... LOL The profit is all in the money financing games not in making the better mouse trap for lower CASH price.
There are also no nutrients in food that you cannot obtain from vitamins and supplements, and fiber shakes.
And yet - most of us eat food. And billions of people worldwide are not obese, and manage to eat food. Including grain.
We eat food because those other things don't replicate all the nutrients and benefits of whole foods.
Quote:
The "secret" to having a healthy weight, is healthy eating and healthy exercise. Eat for health, not for weight. If something makes you not feel well, then don't eat it. If something makes you feel great, then eat it. If something is neutral, but healthy for you, then find a way to make it taste good. Or find a reasonable substitute.
Right, it's not complicated. I commented on this recently. It seems to me that most are only concerned about appearance, not health. Eating for health is necessary to produce a healthy weight. Everyone knows that all lifestyle factors matter. Diet is not the only lifestyle factor.
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It's not calories in, calories out. But it's SO much more than just cutting out specific foods.
Agree and never said otherwise. It's why I said if you are overweight, at minimum throw out refined grains. They are mostly empty calories, increase risk of disease, cause blood sugar spikes and crashes which lead to hunger causing many people to overeat. This goes for all refined carbs.
How in the heck do billions of Chinese, Japanese, and Indians manage to do it?
Portion sizes and what the rest of the diet consists of ... perhaps?
On average, a Japanese person's daily intake of white rice is just over 1/2 cup cooked. The rest of their traditional, ancestral diet consists of whole foods, not highly-processed foods like in the US.
Last edited by SimplySagacious; 03-20-2022 at 09:53 AM..
Portion sizes and what the rest of the diet consists of ... perhaps?
On average, a Japanese person's daily intake of white rice is just over 1/2 cup cooked. The rest of their traditional, ancestral diet consists of whole foods, not highly-processed foods like in the US.
Which proves the point that "throwing out" refined grains isn't necessary. REDUCING is necessary. And even that, only if you're already eating too much of it.
There are people who are obese who don't eat grains at all.
There are obese people who eat a strictly vegetarian diet.
There are people who are obese who spend most of their time juicing.
There are people who are obese who eat only raw, UNprocessed foods - not minimally processed, but none at all.
What do they have in common:
They eat more than their body needs. They eat too much food. Not too much grain, not too much processed food. Too much, period.
They need to eat less, move more. Eat less of whatever is making them gain. Move more to restore or maintain a healthy metabolism, a healthier heart rate, healthier circulatory system, healthier muscular system, and healthier bones.
Eat more nutrition-dense foods, fewer nutrition-vacant foods. No need to eliminate anything. More of the good, less of the bad.
Also, get off the Japanese eat their ancestral diet nonsense. Their diet is typically insanely oversalted, in particular soy sauce and miso, the two primary staples of their food and cooking. Just because they don't eat a lot of bread doesn't mean they eat healthy. And the most famous of the Japanese "traditional" culture, the Sumo Wrestlers, will consume up to 20,000 calories in a single day.
Which proves the point that "throwing out" refined grains isn't necessary. REDUCING is necessary. And even that, only if you're already eating too much of it.
There are people who are obese who don't eat grains at all.
There are obese people who eat a strictly vegetarian diet.
There are people who are obese who spend most of their time juicing.
There are people who are obese who eat only raw, UNprocessed foods - not minimally processed, but none at all.
What do they have in common:
They eat more than their body needs. They eat too much food. Not too much grain, not too much processed food. Too much, period.
They need to eat less, move more. Eat less of whatever is making them gain. Move more to restore or maintain a healthy metabolism, a healthier heart rate, healthier circulatory system, healthier muscular system, and healthier bones.
Eat more nutrition-dense foods, fewer nutrition-vacant foods. No need to eliminate anything. More of the good, less of the bad.
Also, get off the Japanese eat their ancestral diet nonsense. Their diet is typically insanely oversalted, in particular soy sauce and miso, the two primary staples of their food and cooking. Just because they don't eat a lot of bread doesn't mean they eat healthy. And the most famous of the Japanese "traditional" culture, the Sumo Wrestlers, will consume up to 20,000 calories in a single day.
This!!!It should be engraved into people's brains.
You are continuing to propagate the masters' wish to get people to eat more and suffer while doing so. ANY PASTA, RICE, or BREAD is not good for weight management because they increase the frequency of hunger. The B vitamins are better obtained from elsewhere.
Peanut butter is good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by reneeh63
How in the heck do billions of Chinese, Japanese, and Indians manage to do it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimplySagacious
Portion sizes and what the rest of the diet consists of ... perhaps?
On average, a Japanese person's daily intake of white rice is just over 1/2 cup cooked. The rest of their traditional, ancestral diet consists of whole foods, not highly-processed foods like in the US.
And that's a big part of the point, right? Not to demonize entire classes of food - "carbs", "sugars", "white carbs", etc.
Obviously you shouldn't overeat if you can help it. This goes without saying.
Refined carbs are known to drive overeating for many people. They stimulate parts of the brain associated with reward and craving, and addiction centers in the brain, not unlike certain drugs do for many people. You don't tell a drug addict to just take less drugs and he'll be fine.
As I said, if you have a weight problem, best to avoid and replace refined carbs with more nutritious foods. Eating nutritionally-balanced meals helps prevent hunger and cravings to avoid overeating, while ensuring that your body gets the nutrients it needs. Make every calorie count with nutrient-dense foods.
If you eat refined grains and other refined carbs but are not overweight, obese or have a chronic illness they increase risks for, then obviously you are able to manage them.
This thread is about overweight and obesity. If you are eating refined carbs and have a weight problem, they are likely contributing to your problem and may be driving you to overeat. Refined carbs are less healthy and increase your risks for disease. All of this is well-known and backed by science. Try to replace them with healthier foods. Refined grains can be replaced with unrefined whole grains or other foods, and so on.
Obviously you shouldn't overeat if you can help it. This goes without saying.
Refined carbs are known to drive overeating for many people. They stimulate parts of the brain associated with reward and craving, and addiction centers in the brain, not unlike certain drugs do for many people. You don't tell a drug addict to just take less drugs and he'll be fine.
As I said, if you have a weight problem, best to avoid and replace refined carbs with more nutritious foods. Eating nutritionally-balanced meals helps prevent hunger and cravings to avoid overeating, while ensuring that your body gets the nutrients it needs. Make every calorie count with nutrient-dense foods.
If you eat refined grains and other refined carbs but are not overweight, obese or have a chronic illness they increase risks for, then obviously you are able to manage them.
This thread is about overweight and obesity. If you are eating refined carbs and have a weight problem, they are likely contributing to your problem and may be driving you to overeat. Refined carbs are less healthy and increase your risks for disease. All of this is well-known and backed by science. Try to replace them with healthier foods. Refined grains can be replaced with unrefined whole grains or other foods, and so on.
If you overeat refined carbs, then you need to stop overeating them. If you have trouble keeping them to a minimum, then sure - eliminate them entirely. If a nice thick crusty end of garlic bread is your arch nemesis that you just can't keep in the house because you eat the whole loaf - then stop bringing garlic loaves into the house. I totally get that.
But it STILL doesn't make refined carbs the enemy. The loaf is just sitting there, minding its own business. It's not doing anything to you to make you fat. You, unable to restrain yourself, is what's making you fat.
This is why I don't keep Wurther's Originals in my house. I never buy them. If someone offers me one I usually politely decline. Why? Because it sets me on a craving. If I have one, I'll go to CVS, buy a 1-pound bag of them, and eat them all - one after the other, until they're gone. And then I feel sick, but my mouth still wants more. I have zero self-control over them. No idea why. It's just my thing.
It doesn't stop me from consuming things with sugar in them. It's not sugar that's making me go crazy. It's the flavor, the sugar, the consistency, the smell. The combination that makes them a Wurther's Original, is what does it. I'm almost the same way with garlic bread. I can very easily consume an entire loaf in one sitting. I am -usually- able to refrain, so I make it every couple of weeks for my family, and save the leftovers to enjoy the next day. But sometimes I made it "just right" and have to devour the stuff. Thankfully it doesn't make me continue craving it. Once it's gone, it's gone til I make it again. Wurthers are my arch nemesis.
If you can't see a pint of ice cream without eating the whole pint, it doesn't mean you have to eliminate all dairy and all sugar. It just means you have to eliminate ice cream.
There are many factors to this problem. An older woman weighing what she did 20 years ago, might be considered overweight now because she has lost inches in height. She has bone loss in her spine, so she is shorter than she was. Thus the height/tables could show her to obese now.
As a frequent dieter, I know from experience that I feel better in general when I eat some carb, particularly grains. If you feel better eating no grains, then by all means, eliminate them. But this does not apply everyone.
Age does make weight control harder. You become progressively less active, have more pain, need more rest. But your appetite might remain the same. Loss of simple stamina makes old age harder in general.
There have been studies showing that people born into severe poverty to mothers with restricted diets gain more weight as adults. It has been thought that their bodies were primed in utero to conserve calories by storing them as fat. I do not know if this thinking is still current. But studies have shown correlation.
Some of us are genetically predisposed to store fat. We are the descendants of famine survivors, I think. It is harder for us to stay thin. Imagine having to always choose salad at a restaurant, or never eating a burger again, or forever eschewing dessert. Imagine forgoing sandwiches, pancakes, birthday cake, pasta, potato chips or anything potato, pizza, french fries, fried chicken, ice cream. You imagine that people can forever exist not eating foods everyone around them eat every day. They are supposed to do this every day, all the time.
I accept that most convenience foods are not healthy for me. I eat sandwiches rarely now. I do not indulge in desserts except at celebrations, and always in moderation. I do not drink sugar sweetened beverages, or eat regular candy. I do not eat regular ice cream. I cook simple, wholesome food. I have lost some weight, but I’ll never be thin. Ever.
I think people need to take care of themselves, and reserve judgment about others’ behavior.
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