Dog snaps at owner....Owner's next move is to? (breeding, shaking, skin)
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thats what I have been doing soon as she growls I say say Kennel in a sharp tone and she does but she is growling and acting ugly the whole way to it she will go in and lay down she takes a nap and then comes out polite and sweet .. I am trying to figure out the why and her "line" she loves the pets and the attation but she does this and I stop instantly ..
some one in rl suggested I muzzle her and force her to endure the pets and not let her get away with it but I dunno .. if thats a good idea ..
she is extremely well trained .. and thats what makes this so hard to figure out .. right now she just came out of the kennel and layed down at my feet calm and polite she didnt ask for pets she just layed down and put her head down .. she is one very strange dog ..
It's often hard to figure out the why. You're doing the right thing. Just be patient. You've got a great dog. You might have the vet check to eliminate any physical issues.
I think muzzling is a last resort. My dog has fear aggression issues but responds well to my discipline. It requires my hyper attention when he is around a new dog that could trigger his aggression, but he learns from these events, too. A muzzle is remote from the bad behavior so IMO it doesn't teach good behavior.
thats what I have been doing soon as she growls I say say Kennel in a sharp tone and she does but she is growling and acting ugly the whole way to it she will go in and lay down she takes a nap and then comes out polite and sweet .. I am trying to figure out the why and her "line" she loves the pets and the attation but she does this and I stop instantly .. some one in rl suggested I muzzle her and force her to endure the pets and not let her get away with it but I dunno .. if thats a good idea ..
she is extremely well trained .. and thats what makes this so hard to figure out .. right now she just came out of the kennel and layed down at my feet calm and polite she didnt ask for pets she just layed down and put her head down .. she is one very strange dog ..
Actually, that is what I was going to suggest...muzzle her (just to protect yourself) and then gradually get her used to the handling in whatever area of her body triggers the growling. This, of course, would be after having ruled out any possible physical health issues that might be causing this reaction.
However, I wouldn't suggest pushing her boundaries. Do it very gradually...maybe for a minute or so at a time, and talk to her in a soothing, loving voice each time. Keep the touch very gentle, very non-intrusive. Touch her, then when a growl is triggered, touch her for a moment or so more in that area, and then stop. Remove the muzzle and release her as soon as she has settled down and is no longer growling, and repeat this every day. Give her a reward as well once she is released. Barring a physical issue, it sounds like a psychological event might be at play, and if so, you want to teach her that your touch - on any area of her body - is a good thing, not bad. Personally, I wouldn't be sending her to a crate every time she growls; I don't think she is going to learn anything from being separated and confined. (I also tend to be one who doesn't use a crate for negative behaviour.) I think that repeating touch and reinforcing it with positive results will get you further than a reaction/punishment (time out) system.
*Note that my suggestion is simply that...a suggestion. I'm not a trainer, just a person with a dog who has had some pretty severe insecurity issues.
Actually, that is what I was going to suggest...muzzle her (just to protect yourself) and then gradually get her used to the handling in whatever area of her body triggers the growling. This, of course, would be after having ruled out any possible physical health issues that might be causing this reaction.
However, I wouldn't suggest pushing her boundaries. Do it very gradually...maybe for a minute or so at a time, and talk to her in a soothing, loving voice each time. Keep the touch very gentle, very non-intrusive. Touch her, then when a growl is triggered, touch her for a moment or so more in that area, and then stop. Remove the muzzle and release her as soon as she has settled down and is no longer growling, and repeat this every day. Give her a reward as well once she is released. Barring a physical issue, it sounds like a psychological event might be at play, and if so, you want to teach her that your touch - on any area of her body - is a good thing, not bad. Personally, I wouldn't be sending her to a crate every time she growls; I don't think she is going to learn anything from being separated and confined. (I also tend to be one who doesn't use a crate for negative behaviour.) I think that repeating touch and reinforcing it with positive results will get you further than a reaction/punishment (time out) system.
*Note that my suggestion is simply that...a suggestion. I'm not a trainer, just a person with a dog who has had some pretty severe insecurity issues.
About the kennel.. the door stays open its her safe zone and she can come and go as she pleases .. sending her to the kennel is like sending a bratty kid to their room until they are ready to be nice .. .. at least thats how I see it .. she will sometimes start to growl and SHE will turn and head to the kennel as if she is correcting herself.. I have no idea if she just chooses to go or if its her training .. a couple of times she hasnt and has shown her teeth and then she "cuss's and snarls as she is sent to the kennel" .. .. she is a very big dog and could do some real damages if she bites .. so I am still listening to ideas from you folks and hopefull I can find out the why of her.
A while back I was on a Doberman board, and I remember this case history.
A woman and husband were breeding Dobermans. They had 20-some years experience without a major problem until one of the largest males began challenging the woman, and only her. No amount of obedience training would help.
When the large male was about 2 years old, one day he got on the couch and wouldn't move when the lady gave the order. The husband wasn't home. When she repeated the "off!" command the dog growled her.
She became so furious that she grabbed the 100-pound Dobe by the collar and the back leg, lifted him up and threw the dog against the wall. The drywall broke from the impact.
She didn't get bitten. The dog wasn't hurt, and immediately got up and licked her hand. Afterward, she claimed, this dog became the best dog they ever had in their long breeding and training history. The dog lived to be 12 or 13, never challenged her again, and she could control him with hand gestures or by a whisper.
It was clearly a dominance issue; however, remember that commercial: Don't try this at home.
And while we normally hate and avoid violence, once in a while it becomes a useful tool.
If a Doberman breeder resorts to throwing one of her dogs against a wall to supposedly train him after he growls; then I would say she should rethink her breeding program. I would never trust such a person, let alone get a dog from her. She risked injuring the dog; and that's unacceptable; at least for a comparatively minor canine offense. (the dog was not hurting or attacking anyone, he was a male, probably not neutered, coming into his adulthood, and he growled at her for telling him to get off the couch). There are other training methods she could have tried before slamming the dog around by his collar and leg.
One of my dogs is old and cranky - and sometime in the past year he has started nipping when you pet him too long (similar to cat behavior). He also HATES to have someone get in his face, even for a hug, and nipped at my daughter one day when she leaned over to hug him and got too close to his face. He didn't make contact - it was more like a warning shot. She now approaches him from ABOVE rather than straight on, when she wants to give him a hug (he's okay with that).
My other dog nips when you try to take away his toys - even if they are falling apart. Last night he had a new toy that he shredded in under two minutes, and even though it was completely useless at that point, when I went to take it away from him he held on tight with his paws and leaned forward to press his nose against my hand as a warning. When he felt me tug on the toy anyway, he opened his mouth to nip but stopped when my other hand started to pet his head at the same time. At that point he let me take the toy since he'd prefer to get pet over playing with a toy. He can also get nippy if there is too much energy in the room - he does NOT like when it gets too loud and rambunctious (it stresses him out).
Over the past year I've done a lot of education with my kids on what to do with the dogs (don't get in their face, the proper way to feed them, the proper way to walk them, the proper way to play, the proper way to correct, the proper way to speak, and the proper behavior around the second dog).
Having said that, one of my dogs DID bite someone recently (a dogsitter), but she completely disregarded EVERY SINGLE PIECE OF INFORMATION I gave her with regard to how to dogsit my dogs. It became clear to me that while she may love dogs, she doesn't KNOW dogs, and her negligence resulted in a bite from one of my dogs. Fortunately, the company she worked for completely understood that she was in the wrong and that my dog was not to blame in the slightest. They told her that her services were no longer required after their investigation.
If a Doberman breeder resorts to throwing one of her dogs against a wall to supposedly train him after he growls; then I would say she should rethink her breeding program. I would never trust such a person, let alone get a dog from her. She risked injuring the dog; and that's unacceptable; at least for a comparatively minor canine offense. (the dog was not hurting or attacking anyone, he was a male, probably not neutered, coming into his adulthood, and he growled at her for telling him to get off the couch). There are other training methods she could have tried before slamming the dog around by his collar and leg.
This a really naive statement. I disagree with throwing the animal against a walk but she did the correct thing by taking charge and dominating the dog. When a dog with the physical attributes of a Doberman challenges your authority you have two choice:
1. put the dog unequivocally in its place
2. get rid of the dog.
This was not a "minor offense". If you let the dog establish an alpha position, you will never be able to control it.
I have a mountain cur (they were bred to take down wild hogs) who I adopted after being her foster for nearly a year. She is trained as my service dog and generally is almost perfect. Almost. She has 2 issues: 1, she believes she is the most dominant female in this house and 2, she believes no other dogs need to come near me - or me to them.
Through training, she has learned that I am more dominant than she is. She challenged this recently when we were out taking a walk and I needed her to not go where she was heading. I issued the "stop" command followed by a "come". She held her ground - not pulling the leash, just refused to move. I gave her a tug and repeated "come". Nothing. Mind you, she's not a small dog, 50#. I tried to pull her where I wanted her, nothing. So I tied off the leash to a tree and came inside to think how to win the war while conceding the battle. When I returned, she hadn't moved and didn't respond to my command to come. So again, I left her there and walked away for a slightly longer break. When I returned this time, she had moved a foot or so. So I decided to meet her halfway and she came to me. Battle = tie; war = won. She did not go where she wanted.
I took in a foster puppy and made it clear that growling at it was not going to be tolerated. He kept approaching her and at one point tried to nurse (he was long past needing that). She nipped him (she has a right to protect herself) but didn't hurt him. They became best playmates, she herded him to keep him out of trouble, played rough as he needed, and snuggled. I could snuggle him and she didn't show jealousy. At an event a few weeks after, I asked another dog handler I trusted to see if the 2 female dogs could get along now and that was an instant no go. So we still have a resource guarding issue that I will probably never "fix" but it's manageable - she will attack any female dog in my presence and I know to remove her from that area. She is still welcome to go to those emotional support events; we just keep her away from females.
Had I resorted to her challenge of my authority with violence, I wouldn't have the sweet, everybody loves her dog I have now. I can establish dominance without violence or putting her down.
No challenge to authority is ever a minor offense. Training isn't always able to counter breeding/instinct.
Had I resorted to her challenge of my authority with violence, I wouldn't have the sweet, everybody loves her dog I have now. I can establish dominance without violence or putting her down.
No challenge to authority is ever a minor offense. Training isn't always able to counter breeding/instinct.
I have a Boxer/Shepherd/Pit/? mix. He weighs 55 pounds and hasn't an ounce of fat on him. He has fear aggression that I have been working on for the eigth months that I've owned him. I've had to pin him three times for aggression toward other dogs. Pinning isn't violence toward the dog. He isn't hurt by the technique but IMO it is necessary to establish without question that my rule of not attacking other dogs is a rule that is inviolate. When he is pinned I speak softly too him and work to calm him. He's always fearful at the start, which is why he attacked the other dog to begin with. Holding him down and soothing him calms him and reinforces the rule. Over the six months that I've owned him he has become much less fearful and is very loving with people and children, though I would never leave him alone with a child.
I can see why your approach would be appropriate for the circumstance you describe. Your dog was just being obstinate. That is a milder issue and a milder response fits the "crime." I agree also with your statement that no challenge to authority can ever be ignored, especially with a large powerful dog.
If my dog snapped at me, I would hold his mouth shut and slap his nose while staring him in the eyes. If he continued, he would get it a lot more until he figured out that was unacceptable. I own a German Shepherd. I think it's important to let your dog know that you are the alpha male in the house. When the dog thinks it's in charge, you get aggression towards you and other household members when the dog doesn't get his way.
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