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This a really naive statement. I disagree with throwing the animal against a walk but she did the correct thing by taking charge and dominating the dog. When a dog with the physical attributes of a Doberman challenges your authority you have two choice:
1. put the dog unequivocally in its place
2. get rid of the dog.
This was not a "minor offense". If you let the dog establish an alpha position, you will never be able to control it.
Yes, it was important to establish control over the dog; but I think that if you are breeding dogs that are so problematic that you believe you must physically slam them into a wall to train them, then something is wrong with either your breeding program or your training methods or both. The owner/breeder of that dog is lucky that the dog didn't decide, after being flung into a wall, that he should bypass the offending growl and just go straight to biting. There had to be other, less physically violent methods that could have been tried before resorting to throwing the dog into a wall. I can't believe that risking breaking the dog's bones was the only way to make him behave.
Yes, it was important to establish control over the dog; but I think that if you are breeding dogs that are so problematic that you believe you must physically slam them into a wall to train them, then something is wrong with either your breeding program or your training methods or both. The owner/breeder of that dog is lucky that the dog didn't decide, after being flung into a wall, that he should bypass the offending growl and just go straight to biting. There had to be other, less physically violent methods that could have been tried before resorting to throwing the dog into a wall. I can't believe that risking breaking the dog's bones was the only way to make him behave.
When a dog bites, you want to respond with something more extreme than shaking your finger at him/her. Allowing the defiance to remain as an option in the dogs mind is much more likely to lead to the escalation you describe.
When a dog bites, you want to respond with something more extreme than shaking your finger at him/her. Allowing the defiance to remain as an option in the dogs mind is much more likely to lead to the escalation you describe.
So you don't think there's a middle ground between slamming a dog into a wall and shaking a finger at it?
Neither extreme is acceptable in the case of a dog biting/nipping if unprovoked. However, slamming a dog into a wall is, in my book, not only abuse but sets up the dog to react with a similar extreme reaction to someone hurting it. Extremes beget extremes.
A dog snapping at its owner requires a reaction in response to the snap - but that means understanding all conditions: did the owner hurt the dog intentionally or push the dog past its tolerance?
Take a look at the video of when Cesar Milan was bitten by a dog. The dog in question did everything possible to avoid the aggression Cesar was showing. The dog licked its lips, hung its head, backed up. Cesar just kept pushing and pushing and, as a supposed expert and someone who should know dog language, he provoked that attack. He stared at the dog, backed it into a corner, made menacing moves.
BTW, staring at a dog does not make one the pack leader; it's an aggressive move that says "I challenge you" in dog language.
If the dog in question snaps at its owner with no provocation at all, then the dog needs to be put in time out after being told "no" in a very harsh voice. Then the dog needs to be examined to see if it is well, in pain, etc.
This was the post about the Doberman whose owner/breeder slammed him against a wall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgforshort
A while back I was on a Doberman board, and I remember this case history.
A woman and husband were breeding Dobermans. They had 20-some years experience without a major problem until one of the largest males began challenging the woman, and only her. No amount of obedience training would help.
When the large male was about 2 years old, one day he got on the couch and wouldn't move when the lady gave the order. The husband wasn't home. When she repeated the "off!" command the dog growled her.
She became so furious that she grabbed the 100-pound Dobe by the collar and the back leg, lifted him up and threw the dog against the wall. The drywall broke from the impact.
She didn't get bitten. The dog wasn't hurt, and immediately got up and licked her hand. Afterward, she claimed, this dog became the best dog they ever had in their long breeding and training history. The dog lived to be 12 or 13, never challenged her again, and she could control him with hand gestures or by a whisper.
It was clearly a dominance issue; however, remember that commercial: Don't try this at home.
And while we normally hate and avoid violence, once in a while it becomes a useful tool.
Note that there is no mention of the dog snapping at or biting anyone. I wonder what kind of obedience training they had tried; and if they had worked with any canine behaviorists. I also wonder whether the dog reacted to the owner's rage as much as being thrown into a wall?
I still think there were other things that could have been tried, including some use of physical but not injurious force, besides risking extreme bodily harm to a dog. I'm glad that the dog never challenged his owner again; but I would never ever even think of getting a dog that this person had bred or trained.
Our beagle mix has snapped at us twice(once me, once my husband) however *both* times were our fault, not hers.
The first happened when me and my husband were playfully pillow fighting(we had just moved in together and were unpacked the bedding. Maddie is my dog, and although she knew my husband we hadn't lived with him) anywho, she happened to walk into the room right as he smacked with a pillow, man she got mad. Barked and went after his ankles, didn't actually bite him of course and seemed to realize right after she did it that she might have made a mistake. I was impressed she thought I was in danger. She's never done it since, but we don't play fight anymore...for her sake.
The 2nd time I went to move her over on the couch and didn't realize she was fully asleep, she snapped and growled at me before she realized who/what I was. I felt bad, I thought she was awake and I normally just drag her and the blanket she's on when I need to move her over. Her 30lb self somehow always manages to take up half the couch lol
It all depends on what caused the dog to snap, because sometimes its not their fault, but the peoples.
I had some of my dogs challenge me. I alpha roll them wrap the front paws up wi my arm and literally put my mouth on their necks and growl. Then I look them in the eyes and growl again. That pretty much ends ANY superiority they think they have. I rarely resort to hitting and if I do it's a rolled up paper and smack the butt. Usually reaching for a spray bottle with water is enough. The popping noise is more scary than the hit.
Alpha rolling a dog is never a good idea. Its just a good way to get bit and a good way to damage the trust and bond you have with your dog. Much better to use your human brain instead of fighting with your dog.
This was the post about the Doberman whose owner/breeder slammed him against a wall.
Note that there is no mention of the dog snapping at or biting anyone. I wonder what kind of obedience training they had tried; and if they had worked with any canine behaviorists. I also wonder whether the dog reacted to the owner's rage as much as being thrown into a wall?
I still think there were other things that could have been tried, including some use of physical but not injurious force, besides risking extreme bodily harm to a dog. I'm glad that the dog never challenged his owner again; but I would never ever even think of getting a dog that this person had bred or trained.
I was reading this maybe 15 years ago, and I can't remember all the details, but the dog was perfectly trained and always obeyed the husband, but didn't show any respect towards the wife, who was a small woman.
Once they sorted out the dominance issue the dog became a poster child for a well-trained Dobe, so it seems their training methods were not all that useless.
Once at a dog show I asked a breeder if he was ever challenged by one of his Dobermans. The man told me, "Only once in 25 years."
"What happened?" I asked him.
He was a large man in his fifties. He said, "I flung the dog around a low tree branch and let him hang from his choke chain for a minute. That dog never tried to hurt me again, and we were on good terms for the next 9 years."
I don't necessarily agree with this training, I simply report what I read/heard. Our dogs never needed it, but they were never larger than 48 lbs.
Last edited by mgforshort; 02-20-2015 at 05:02 PM..
Reason: grammar
Alpha rolling a dog is never a good idea. Its just a good way to get bit and a good way to damage the trust and bond you have with your dog. Much better to use your human brain instead of fighting with your dog.
You are just wrong. If you want to communicate with a dog, use dog communication rather than reason with the dog. Dogs don't understand "reason".
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