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Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 19 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,549 posts, read 16,533,663 times
Reputation: 6032
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenCopeland
Watched his town hall. He's a smooth talker, and great delivery of old, tired liberal ideas; bigger government and less freedom with the exception of abortion, drugs, and LGBT issues.
What must concern all Americans, however, is his support of replacing the electoral college with a popular vote, and any politician who agrees.
The electoral college is genius within the Constitution, because it protects federal elections against mob rule, the tyranny of the majority.
In his interests in scrapping the electoral college, he prioritizes the short-term successes of his own party versus the big picture safeguard of our democracy. Deal breaker.
You think a majority that disagree with you makes them a "mob", thats interesting.
You think a majority that disagree with you makes them a "mob", thats interesting.
I think its funny he mentions democracy and in the same breath condemns it. The founders were elitists who did not trust average people to manage themselves. Thankfully as time has passed we have updated the country. Blindly holding on to tradition is one of the reasons why the US is stagnating.
I think its funny he mentions democracy and in the same breath condemns it. The founders were elitists who did not trust average people to manage themselves. Thankfully as time has passed we have updated the country. Blindly holding on to tradition is one of the reasons why the US is stagnating.
Read and think about it, rather than simple dismissal. The foresight and genius of the founding fathers is just amazing, to suspect that one day populations may urbanize and concentrate and, without the electoral college, the interests of small or rural states would otherwise not have a mechanism for fair representation in federal elections.
Buttigieg and the others need to be very careful of what they wish for. Not only would deleting the electoral college bring us extreme left wing presidents and a shift towards extreme government dependency (i.e. killing the Goose That Laid the Golden Egg), but one day their interests may find themselves on the losing side of the change. In any case, the fact remains that the electoral college is a genius move and critical to the fairness of the union of free states.
His appeal has limits. Not angry enough for Trump haters, not socialist enough for freeloaders, was a "baby' killer in the military, too fiscally conservative for free spending liberal progressives and he's openly gay with a husband for social conservatives.
I kinda like him because of his intellectual demeanor. I do not like how he thinks... or as I call it, "stinkin- thinkin" and he would never get my vote, but he seems like a good guy to me. I would enjoy talking to him.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 19 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,549 posts, read 16,533,663 times
Reputation: 6032
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenCopeland
Read and think about it, rather than simple dismissal. The foresight and genius of the founding fathers is just amazing, to suspect that one day populations may urbanize and concentrate and, without the electoral college, the interests of small or rural states would otherwise not have a mechanism for fair representation in federal elections.
Buttigieg and the others need to be very careful of what they wish for. Not only would deleting the electoral college bring us extreme left wing presidents and a shift towards extreme government dependency (i.e. killing the Goose That Laid the Golden Egg), but one day their interests may find themselves on the losing side of the change. In any case, the fact remains that the electoral college is a genius move and critical to the fairness of the union of free states.
Except that isnt true and thats part of what makes you wrong.
The senate exists for the opposite reason than you claim. Slave states had their slaves counted int he population, free states, the more urban ones, technically had lower representation population.
Virginia in 1790 for example, had roughly 400,000 free residents.
Pennsylvania had about the same, 400,000
Yet the electoral vote was 21 for Virginia and 15 for Pennsylvania because the total populations were
434,000 for Pennsylvania, and 747,000 for Virginia.
The Senate was precreated compromise so that states like PA with few slaves didnt get screwed. Not to help rural areas.
So let me get this straight , in every other Election held in the US the winner is chosen by the majority vote except for the Presidency. So are you saying all of our other elections are basically "mob rule" then?
You couldn't possibly have gotten that less straight.
I don't know if the speech pattern Pete uses is contrived or natural, but if you listen closely, he and President Obama have the same speech pattern, with abrupt stops at the end of each sentence. Is he copying Obama purposely, or coincidence?
The presidency is a federal election versus your local and state elections.
The federal nature of the American Constitutional covenant enables the nation to function as a republic—thus specifically avoiding the dangers of a pure democracy. Republics exercise governmental authority through mediating representatives under the rule of law. Pure democracies on the other hand exercise governmental authority through the imposition of the will of the majority without regard for the concerns of any minority—thus allowing law to be subject to the whims, fashions, and fancies of men.
The essential philosophical and structural framework within which the Founding Fathers constructed their innovative scheme of national checks and balances, separation of powers, and mixed government was state confederation—or federalism.
The principle of federalism allows distinctive and individual communities to join together for a greater good without losing their essential distinctiveness and individuality. Instead of the states becoming a part of some larger amorphous union, under federalism they are able to unite in a symbiotic fashion so that the sum of their parts is greater than that of the whole.
The Founders designed federal system of the United States so that the nation could be, as John Adams described it, a “government of law, not of men.”
The rule of the majority does not always respect the rule of law... history has proven all too often that democracy is particularly susceptible to the urges and impulses of mobocracy.
Yet again another con that confuses the EC with direct democracy. I cannot count the number of times I've seen this mistake.
We are not a direct (pure) democracy even with popular vote for POTUS. We would remain a representative democracy and a republic (a specific form of democracy).
Virtually every other representative democracy with a presidential system chooses their president by national popular vote.
Please read the dictionary. In a direct (pure) democracy, people do not elect a leader, they vote on all governing issues themselves via referenda.
In a representative democracy, people elect a leader to make decisions for them.
EC vs popular vote are simply too ways to choose a leader, neither changes the form of government we have, i.e. a representative democracy, in which we elect a leader to make governing decisions for us.
If Georgia flips Democratic sometime soon, those electoral votes at state would be pretty important to future Democratic victories. If Florida would flip more often that would be important too. I think only Obama accomplished that in recent past. Texas may flip Democratic in 8 -16 years.
Maybe Pennsylvania won't flip Republican again. Someday in distant future Ohio might go Democratic once or occasionally.
I don’t get this talk about Ohio being really conservative. It didn’t perform for Democrats in 2018 because of some of the worst state gerrymandering in the country, which was recently ruled unconstitutional. State representatives are just as bad, ensuring Republicans control the state. The actual votes were split. It’s still a very purple swing state. It went for Obama twice, Bush twice and Clinton twice. Trump’s victory there has no bearing on how it will vote in 2020. Like in most states, Trump’s approval rating there is underwater.
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