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Yet the US and others will continue to chant for the Ukrainian gov to show "restraint"; as if the US would ever show constraint if this happened in the US. Exactly how much restraint does the US think the Ukrainian gov should show? Oh yes, the US wants the current gov toppled of course.
The Ukrainian protesters seem to have forgotten about that democracy thing; if they do not like what the current gov is doing, vote them out. But since the protesters are the minority in Ukraine, they have to resort to other means. It is unfortunate that the majority of them reside in the Northern part of Ukraine, in and around Kiev. Ukraine should consider moving the capitol because of this, that or just split the country.
Stunning pictures from the past two days. Photographers unknown/unidentified.
[spoiler]
Wow.
But will it really play in rebel's hands in the eyes of E.U.?
Because indeed it becomes a question of double standards, what's democracy and "peaceful protests" and what's not.
No, the poster means the police that were captured are Russian spies; he has no evidence of this, nor would it really matter since in the "civilized" world, this is kidnapping, but the poster does not care, he is from Estonia, and has been brainwashed from birth every problem in the world is caused by Russia. If the poster's toilet does not flush, it must be Russia's fault; Russia makes a great scapegoat for everything in the Baltic states, but it has been this way for hundreds of years.
Wow.
But will it really play in rebel's hands in the eyes of E.U.?
Because indeed it becomes a question of double standards, what's democracy and "peaceful protests" and what's not.
The EU has urged both the opposition and government to stop the violence, and try to take it to the negotiating table. But on the same time the EU has protested against the new undemocratic laws, and the Tymoshenko case is something that it doesn't accept as well.
But no, the EU will not side with the protesters right now, especially when there's all kinds of factions involved that the EU doesn't like, as anarchists and the Svoboda neo-nazi party.
But IF the government switches from riot police to guns and tanks, the sympathies can quickly turn towards the protesters.
Wow.
But will it really play in rebel's hands in the eyes of E.U.?
Because indeed it becomes a question of double standards, what's democracy and "peaceful protests" and what's not.
Of course it will. Once the EU and the US get something in their heads, they become obtuse to any facts that will counter what they want. The protesters could align with Al Quaeda and set off a nuclear bomb, and the EU and US would still side with them and urge the Ukrainian gov to show restraint. The minute the Ukrainian gov even pepper spays someone, the EU and US will scream "gov brutality!".
So many are obtuse to the fact that the country has elections, it is not protesting a dictatorship, and that if people do not like what the gov is doing, they are free to vote them out during the next elections. But no, the protesters rather circumvent democracy and impose undemocratic methods to get what they want. Plus, seems no one there understands anything about the economic situation, they just scream "EU", not at all wanting to address the issues involved.
And in my opinion, the real hysteria involved here is the protesters think they will get a free pass into the EU, thus be able to freely enter the EU and leave Ukraine. Though this is not the case, many seem to think this is a quick path to this; their ultimate goal is not Ukraine, but to get the heck out of Ukraine.
No, the poster means the police that were captured are Russian spies;
I'd think that he was referring to "Moscovite" and his question, as in "Russian spies are everywhere," hence - my response.
Quote:
he has no evidence of this, nor would it really matter since in the "civilized" world, this is kidnapping, but the poster does not care, he is from Estonia, and has been brainwashed from birth every problem in the world is caused by Russia. If the poster's toilet does not flush, it must be Russia's fault; Russia makes a great scapegoat for everything in the Baltic states, but it has been this way for hundreds of years.
I know that much, but seriously, going back to the current situation in Ukraine.
As I've said today on my ru. forum in response to discussion of what's going on there, is the foreign "players" that take sides ( as it was in case with Russia earlier as well.)
That's what doesn't allow the population of these countries to sort things out in democratic manner. In the West, the decisions of the local population of every respective country is their own decisions, with no foreign strings attached. That's one of the major reasons why the whole "democracy" thing doesn't work in certain counties the way it works in the West.
I'd think that he was referring to "Moscovite" and his question, as in "Russian spies are everywhere," hence - my response.
Ah heck, my bad, I though he was referring to the captured police. My apologies to the poster if I was msitaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure
I know that much, but seriously, going back to the current situation in Ukraine.
As I've said today on my ru. forum in response to discussion of what's going on there, is the foreign "players" that take sides ( as it was in case with Russia earlier as well.)
That's what doesn't allow the population of these countries to sort things out in democratic manner. In the West, the decisions of the local population of every respective country is their own decisions, with no foreign strings attached. That's one of the major reasons why the whole "democracy" thing doesn't work in certain counties the way it works in the West.
Very true, the West has a history of intervening in elections as well, leveraging economic conditions to gain favor through third party means (churches recruit members like this as well).
But nevertheless, there are still elections held, and just because a sizable minority does not like the actions of the gov, which the actions are legal, does not give them the right to undermine the democratic system.
You would think by the actions they would be protesting something worthwhile, like social injustice or something, no, they are protesting a simple trade agreement, ridiculous. If they get so riled up over something this simple, they are going to have a not pleasant future; their past since the USSR is a reflection of this.
Do any of you think these protests have the potential to spread outside Ukraine?
Outside of Ukraine where?
I don't know about Belorussia, but I don't see such possibility for Russia.
As I've already said many times before, the American involvement in Russian affairs back in the 90ies and its consequences are still remembered well in Russia, which is still very damaging for Russian internal politics and the opposition to Putin.
In case of Ukraine right now it's again a matter of foreign involvement (this time around the E.U.,) and Russians are well-aware of it. That's why I don't see them going out on the streets en mass in support of Ukrainians. Although you can see on-line that many are cheering Ukrainians; just saw this video from Maidan on Russian sites;
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but seriously, going back to the current situation in Ukraine.
