Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well, why doesn't Russia simply annex Ukraine if its history and Russia's is so intertwined?
Russia used to do that back in history, when Russian state was at the "full swing," - meaning it felt confident enough to keep control of the fringes of its territory.
The way I understand it, the main reason why Russia let go of Ukraine back in the nineties is the same reason why Russian government didn't want it until now; Russian oligarchs (and upper class in general) didn't want to "waste their money" on Ukraine, since they didn't see there anything of value. ( So I don't hold my breath when Putin is talking about "his desire to help Ukrainian people" now. )
Quote:
Is "Ukranian Nationalism" a phony idea?
I don't know whether "phony" is a right word here, but Ukrainian nationalism is very real, as much as Russian nationalism. So we are talking about two sides of a story here; one - is close ties between Russians and Ukrainians, and another side of it - nationalism on both sides.
I was watching another day the concert of a popular singer in Kiev - Ukraine's capital, so the warm welcome for him was obvious, as much as a fact that Ukrainians were addressing him in Russian. ( He is a much loved person apparently not only in Russia.)
What was more amazing though, that during the concert of a very powerful Ukrainian singer in Moscow, the Russians were singing along with him in Ukrainian - that's how much they loved his songs.
So everything looked fine, until the first troubling sign showed up during the interview with S. Vakarchuk ( the Ukrainian singer,) where during his interview, the phony interviewer talking to him him about Vakarchuk's tours in Northern America and Russia, implied that "Russia is really not "abroad" for you...
That's when Vakarchuk stopped him abruptly to make a point that "No, Russia IS abroad. As soon as I get to Russia, the Russian custom officers let me know very clearly that now I am ABROAD."
( I've spotted it right away, so as I've said, there are two sides to the story.)
"Yanukovich retains the loyalty of a substantial section of the 45 million population, notably among Russian speakers in the east. A weekend poll showed he would top a multi-candidate presidential election with about 20 percent of the vote."
Wow. Looking at the intensity of these protests in Kiev, I wouldn't expect it.
But then again -
"Opposition leaders said they had assurances of economic support from the West if they could take power from Yanukovich and spoke of new elections and amendments to the constitution that would curb the presidency and bolster parliament. Yanukovich supporters say that would mean political paralysis."
I don't know if it is correct to view the conflict in the Ukraine through the lens of the Cold War- that is, a nation struggling to break free of the influence of the "Evil Empire".
Well I guess I'd have to say that my posts kind of veer in that direction. I'm afraid the actions done by the USSR at the time after the war with its 'neighbors' are gone to history but yet continually echo indeed to affect national decisions countries today in that part of the world. Only those with political naivete could argue that it has no effect at all. Two words, No's and The West, which really is just a notation for the USA, always seem to cause consternation in the Russian state when it has application to its neighbor's political and economic life. I think this Ukraine/Russian showdown is a perfect example and lays that conflict bare. I do not think this will ever go away for the foreseeable future. The mix of the US, the West and Russia plus those who perhaps differ from a Russian outlook 'interests' will always be acidic. Always. Always was. Always will be.
Well I guess I'd have to say that my posts kind of veer in that direction. I'm afraid the actions done by the USSR at the time after the war with its 'neighbors' are gone to history but yet continually echo indeed to affect national decisions countries today in that part of the world. Only those with political naivete could argue that it has no effect at all. Two words, No's and The West, which really is just a notation for the USA, always seem to cause consternation in the Russian state when it has application to its neighbor's political and economic life. I think this Ukraine/Russian showdown is a perfect example and lays that conflict bare. I do not think this will ever go away for the foreseeable future. The mix of the US, the West and Russia plus those who perhaps differ from a Russian outlook 'interests' will always be acidic. Always. Always was. Always will be.
Don't make a mistake - Ukraine was not a "neighbor"; it was inseparable part of the USSR from the very beginning, except for the Western part of Ukraine. But that part always had different "masters" throughout history; from Russia to Poland and Austria.
Don't make a mistake - Ukraine was not a "neighbor"; it was inseparable part of the USSR from the very beginning, except for the Western part of Ukraine. But that part always had different "masters" throughout history; from Russia to Poland and Austria.
What is now the western part of Ukraine was part of Poland until the end of World War Two.
During that terrible time, it seemed there was more than one war going on in Eastern Europe.
I don't know whether "phony" is a right word here, but Ukrainian nationalism is very real, as much as Russian nationalism.
Russian - a fusion of nationalities. Slavs, Finno-Ugric, Baltic tribes, Tatars and other peoples. Russian nationalists are young hooligans and stupid policy, not people.
So we are talking about two sides of a story here; one - is close ties between Russians and Ukrainians, and another side of it - nationalism on both sides.
Unfortunately, this is a fight between brothers. Stupid and sad. And this is not nationalism, this is business and politics.
Russian - a fusion of nationalities. Slavs, Finno-Ugric, Baltic tribes, Tatars and other peoples. Russian nationalists are young hooligans and stupid policy, not people.
I've never said that it's not government policies that currently breed nationalism, but it doesn't mean that Russian nationalism is not there to begin with. At times it's successfully suppressed, at times it's at its highest points, but the seeds of it is always there.
That "Russisan - a fusion of nationalities Slavs, Finno-Ugric, Baltic tribes, Tatars and other peoples" is only one point of view governing Russia, but should I remind you what "title nation" is all about - an attitude that prevails in part of Russians that they are superior to all other people of Russia and the most deserving. Or are you pretending here that you've never heard of such thing?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
)
