The future of Ukraine (people, English, Russian, cons)

[gsgsgs]

MH17 final report to be disclosed on Oct. 13 Xinhua

[gsgsgs]

final report:
http://cdn.onderzoeksraad.nl/documen...7-crash-en.pdf
29.4MB , .pdf , 279 pages

Buk - 9N314M warhead , 9N38-series ,
no evidence of other aircraft, civil or military, within 33km
RDX-explosive

[lchoro]

The report is contradicted by general behavior of surface-to-air missiles which target the vital areas at the center of the plane.

Expert describes effect of missile hit on MH17 | Daily Mail Online

[gsgsgs]

that dailymail article is from July,2014. Ask them, if they still believe what they wrote
after what we know now.
Are there still people who doubt that it was a Buk ?
Russian media ?

https://www.rt.com/news/318628-russi...-dutch-report/
> Russia disagrees with the Dutch Safety Board’s report on MH17 crash findings,
> the Federal Air Transport Agency said.

they are not specific on what point they disagree and why. Just generally biased or such.
Does Russia admit that it was a Buk ?

> fragments of the missile ... doubt their authenticity

just doubting is pretty thin.The report is very specific, so Russia should be able
to address exactly where they think it's wrong, which exact fragment is not authentical
and enter the discussion.
Storchevoy seems to think that it was a Buk, though.
Just from where it was launched ...

> The missile’s trajectory as presented by the Dutch safety board is incorrect,
> the Russian aviation agency said.

Another probe conducted by the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) set to determine who
was behind the incident is still ongoing, with results expected to be released by the
end of this year.


---------------------------------------------
Russia rejects Dutch MH17 crash report
Deutsche Welle - 1 day ago
http://www.dw.com/en/russia-rejects-...ort/a-18787518

MH17: Russia challenged to prove Ukraine shot down plane | MH17 ...
www.theweek.co.uk/mh17/.../flight-mh17-what-we-have-learned-from-the- final-report
‎5 days ago ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

Buk surface-to-air 9M38-series missile with 9N314M warhead

[what type were the Buk that the rebels had captured from Ukraine ?
did Ukraine have that type at that time ?]

[gsgsgs]

The Fakery of
Eric_B wrote:
it’s an old missile and an old warhead, which Ukraine still has in active service and definitely
did have deployed in the war zone.
sure, Russia no doubt has them in storage as well.
------------------------------------------
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38300&start=30
Robert Parry writes:
nothing from the U.S. intelligence data
I was told by a U.S. intelligence source earlier this year that CIA analysts had met with
Dutch investigators to describe what the classified U.S. evidence showed but apparently
with the caveat that it must remain secret.
not in service with the Russian Armed Forces, but Ukraine has them,” Luzan said.


....

suggesting that Russia and the DSF agree on the type of missile and warhead
(older model) and that Russia had converted from air-to-air towards Buk
long ago (mid 2015 ?) but claiming now that Ukraine shot it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Parry_(journalist)
https://consortiumnews.com/

[lchoro]

The point is there were two competing theories on the shootdown of the passenger airliner. Besides the BUK missile, there was the theory that a Ukrainian fighter downed the airliner by shooting into the cockpit.

The Daily Mail article shows what's generally expected to occur in a surface-to-air missile attack.

There's also another claim that the Ukrainian missile launcher had been captured by the rebels. It's moot then whether Russia has any of the old missiles in stockpile.



The Malaysian Boeing saga is far from over | Russia Direct

[gsgsgs]

but

even Russia seems to step back from the air-to-air claim
even Ukraine claimed that the captured Buk was not operational

-------------------------
thanks for the link to russia-direct
seems that they are neutral, unbiased (?)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_Beyond_the_Headlines#Russia_Direct

[Лютый]

These so called "ukrs" has frazzled out everyone with their delirium.

[gsgsgs]

Robert Parry wrote:

> I was told by a U.S. intelligence source earlier this year that CIA analysts had met with
> Dutch investigators to describe what the classified U.S. evidence showed but apparently
> with the caveat that it must remain secret.

what's the source ? Is it somehow confirmed ? Wouldn't it have to be mentioned at least
in the final report ?
I find lots about Dutch intelligence in the report, but nothing about US-intelligence.
I'd assume Dutch intelligence is relatively unimportant as compared to US,
so to me ATM this looks like some "advertisement" for Dutch intelligence ?!

If it were true, those Dutch investigators might know the truth and could no longer
investigate the issue in a way as if they didn't (but must keep it secret)
So, were they excluded from DSB ?

I can't find anything about this from sources other than Parry.

---------edit--------------------
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-a...omment-page-2/
Andrea - October 19th, 2015
PS: DSB report’s objective wasn’t to find out who launched the buk but just
the weapon used and other objective things
None knows if US really have satellite images, neither if they were given to JIT.
For sure they were not given to DSB.

[ were there maybe clouds

[kedroff]

Hello ladies and gentlemen!I am from Siberia.Analysing MASS-MEDIA of different countries, I see that to you in the USA mainly tell about Russia and Ukraine!