Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Why are you idiots at once? No one was injured. It was not planned to destroy the tower at all.Something they had to fix there. But, it turned out, as it turned out. The village will have a new water tower, the workers will have a new car )) On the video, everyone is having fun.
I'm not familiar with the territory but, it worst come to worst, how feasible is a quick military strike to bust that dam open before Ze can even say F.....!!!??
There are multiple gates beyond the dam which would all need to be neutralized. Presumably aircraft in Crimea exist to do this. Kherson Oblast does have a decent array of air defense though. So those would also have to be attacked by air. This would also mean that likely air defenders from Mykolaiv would be scrambled to intercept the bombers. So now you need fighter escorts... I don't see it getting to the easy stage and it would be a lot of risk for little reward using aircraft.
Perhaps this is a job for cruise missiles. They would need to use a lot to break open a dam though and these could be repaired in a couple days, so the cost benefit just doesn't exist.
Indeed, there is no "quick" strike option. An invasion is the only way to secure it. And they would need to take the entire dam and canal so it would have to mean an invasion of a large area 80kms from Crimea. It is sparsely populated and not a lot of hills or trees so they could cover ground quick but the entry points on land are well defended and the dam is located in a city that would need to be cleaned out.
There are multiple gates beyond the dam which would all need to be neutralized. Presumably aircraft in Crimea exist to do this. Kherson Oblast does have a decent array of air defense though. So those would also have to be attacked by air. This would also mean that likely air defenders from Mykolaiv would be scrambled to intercept the bombers. So now you need fighter escorts... I don't see it getting to the easy stage and it would be a lot of risk for little reward using aircraft.
Perhaps this is a job for cruise missiles. They would need to use a lot to break open a dam though and these could be repaired in a couple days, so the cost benefit just doesn't exist.
Indeed, there is no "quick" strike option. An invasion is the only way to secure it. And they would need to take the entire dam and canal so it would have to mean an invasion of a large area 80kms from Crimea. It is sparsely populated and not a lot of hills or trees so they could cover ground quick but the entry points on land are well defended and the dam is located in a city that would need to be cleaned out.
Yes there are multiple gates but they do not block the flow on the main canal, they're controls for the secondary canals. The main is in Tavrissk and the obstruction to Crimea is almost due west of Armiansk Crimea.
You don't need to use aircraft. Just use Khinzhals. A lump of 500 lb lead moving 7000 mph hitting either of those dams will ensure the water flows.
If aircraft were to be used then they would have the advantage in a surprise attack. They are mere minutes from any airbase in Crimea and they would be flying NOE, nap of the earth, at treetop height. No AA system the defenders have would be able to react quick enough most likely because the bombers could hide below the horizon from the radars. To take out the lower dam the planes would not even have to cross into Ukrainian airspace. For the one in Tavrissk come in as the sun rises and drop the load. That would take a lot more as it's a bigger structure but it would still go down. Even the old SU-24s would have little problem reaching the dam in Tavrissk at treetop height with the excessive fuel consumption required. SU-34s? A friend told me his math says if 3 cross the border on full afterburner that dam is rubble 11 minutes later. I have not been able to check his math.
There's also the much more complex and costly option of just occupying a line north of the Crimea from Zaporozha on the Dneipre to Donetsk and just take the whole Sea of Azov too. Just to ensure the water doesn't get shut off again. That wouldn't take minutes but only days.
No, you are wrong. There are more gates than that. It's funny for someone who's never been there and seen that canal telling me how it works. I don't know about the new one near the border though. Do you have any photos?
But in any case, bombing a gate structure doesn't open it very well. The one in Kahovka is quite large with a large structure over the gates (which would fall and block the water). It would take a lot more than a few bombs to really open it to where they couldn't stop the water flow. This isn't a deep canal with lots of water pressure behind it, so poking a hole won't do much.
And they can't fly that low, the area is littered with rather tall wind turbines. Try again.
No, you are wrong. There are more gates than that. It's funny for someone who's never been there and seen that canal telling me how it works. I don't know about the new one near the border though. Do you have any photos?
But in any case, bombing a gate structure doesn't open it very well. The one in Kahovka is quite large with a large structure over the gates (which would fall and block the water). It would take a lot more than a few bombs to really open it to where they couldn't stop the water flow. This isn't a deep canal with lots of water pressure behind it, so poking a hole won't do much.
And they can't fly that low, the area is littered with rather tall wind turbines. Try again.
FFS DKM, its called Google Earth. Resolution down to meters. I can see the BRIDGES crossing the canal of which there are several and the gates to the secondary canal system but there are only 2 structures that can block the flow of water to Crimea.
Those windmills are limited in both height and area they are in. Not hard to avoid. There's also the best option of just flying straight up the canal.
You need to look at the distances involved too. Semiferopol to Tavrissk is about 100 miles. SU-34s can do 1400 mph flat out probably with full bomb loads. Do the math.
Hell. Smerch MLRS and numerous other long range artillery systems can hit the dam in Tavrissk. Iskanders could hit it from Donetsk. The problem is they would need blockbusters to take the structure out. Not small stuff.
Why are you idiots at once? No one was injured. It was not planned to destroy the tower at all.Something they had to fix there. But, it turned out, as it turned out. The village will have a new water tower, the workers will have a new car )) On the video, everyone is having fun.
FFS DKM, its called Google Earth. Resolution down to meters. I can see the BRIDGES crossing the canal of which there are several and the gates to the secondary canal system but there are only 2 structures that can block the flow of water to Crimea.
Just because you repeat it 3 times or think you examined Google maps doesn't make it true. I have seen the gates myself (more than once), do you really think I'm just making it up just to annoy you? There are more gates along the canal than the one at beginning and end. You can get mad and deny reality all you want, have a blast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335
You need to look at the distances involved too. Semiferopol to Tavrissk is about 100 miles. SU-34s can do 1400 mph flat out probably with full bomb loads. Do the math.
Can they turn around at 1400 mph too? You don't know much about aircraft. There is no way its even remotely possible a Fullback and do 1400 at low altitude. It's fantasy and Russia knows it would lose some bombers. Ukraine would love to shoot some of these down in exchange for a gate holding some water being down for a few days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335
Hell. Smerch MLRS and numerous other long range artillery systems can hit the dam in Tavrissk. Iskanders could hit it from Donetsk. The problem is they would need blockbusters to take the structure out. Not small stuff.
No a Smerch isn't even close to being accurate enough. No artillery has that range. Iskanders from Donetsk? They don't even work according to Armenia. Donetsk would be leveled if they tried this stupid idea. Might as well declare total war and hope Russia enjoys the consequences.
do you really think I'm just making it up just to annoy you?
No you're not annoying me, but keep on trying.
Quote:
You can get mad and deny reality all you want, have a blast.
Good to know we're both having fun isn't it?
Quote:
Can they turn around at 1400 mph too? You don't know much about aircraft. There is no way its even remotely possible a Fullback and do 1400 at low altitude. It's fantasy and Russia knows it would lose some bombers. Ukraine would love to shoot some of these down in exchange for a gate holding some water being down for a few days.
My pilot friend is on vacation and has apparently checked out from planet earth so I have not heard his opinion yet but we'll get to it. The rest of us are doing the best we can. We do know that some block buster bombs on the gates at the mouth of the canal are going to provide flowing water for more than a few days. If Russia decides to test the accuracy of the Kinzhals just for the fun of it there most likely will be a crater where that dam was. Do the math. 500 lbs of steel at 7000 mph. Do the math. Do the math.
I've never met someone so resistant to education.
Quote:
No a Smerch isn't even close to being accurate enough. No artillery has that range. Iskanders from Donetsk? They don't even work according to Armenia. Donetsk would be leveled if they tried this stupid idea. Might as well declare total war and hope Russia enjoys the consequences.
Here's some stats for MLRS rockets used by Smerch and Tornado systems.
9M55K Cluster munition, anti-personnel 800 kg 7.6 m 243 kg 72 × 1.75 kg, each with 96 fragments (4.5 g each) 110 s 20 km min 70 km max
9M55K1 Cluster munition, self-guided anti-tank 243 kg 5 × 15 kg
9M55K4 Cluster munition, AT minelets. 243 kg 25 × 5 kg mines 24 hour
9M55K5 HEAT/HE-Fragmentation. 243 kg 646 × 0.25 kg (120 mm RHA armor-piercing) 260 s
9M55F separable HE-Fragmentation 258 kg
9M55S Thermobaric 243 kg
9М542[17][18] Satellite-guided (GLONASS),[19] HE-Fragmentation 820 kg 250 kg
40 km min 120 km max
I don't have the time to do all the conversions today and map it out so this is an opportunity to enhance your math skills DKM. Don't cheat either. I'll be checking.
Interesting stats if true. Like I said before, cruise missiles are the optimal choice here. Kinzhal is not known to work. The Kalibr is though. I just don't think they would do enough damage. Could be though... I'm not an engineer.
Left out another option but there are probably drones that could pull it off like what happened to Saudi Arabia not long ago.
My pilot friend is on vacation and has apparently checked out from planet earth so I have not heard his opinion yet but we'll get to it. The rest of us are doing the best we can. We do know that some block buster bombs on the gates at the mouth of the canal are going to provide flowing water for more than a few days. If Russia decides to test the accuracy of the Kinzhals just for the fun of it there most likely will be a crater where that dam was. Do the math. 500 lbs of steel at 7000 mph. Do the math. Do the math.
I've never met someone so resistant to education.
Here's some stats for MLRS rockets used by Smerch and Tornado systems.
9M55K Cluster munition, anti-personnel 800 kg 7.6 m 243 kg 72 × 1.75 kg, each with 96 fragments (4.5 g each) 110 s 20 km min 70 km max
9M55K1 Cluster munition, self-guided anti-tank 243 kg 5 × 15 kg
9M55K4 Cluster munition, AT minelets. 243 kg 25 × 5 kg mines 24 hour
9M55K5 HEAT/HE-Fragmentation. 243 kg 646 × 0.25 kg (120 mm RHA armor-piercing) 260 s
9M55F separable HE-Fragmentation 258 kg
9M55S Thermobaric 243 kg
9М542[17][18] Satellite-guided (GLONASS),[19] HE-Fragmentation 820 kg 250 kg
40 km min 120 km max
I don't have the time to do all the conversions today and map it out so this is an opportunity to enhance your math skills DKM. Don't cheat either. I'll be checking.
Not that I understand much in all these specifications, but Russians have to think now not only about problems that the bleating idiots are causing in Crimea, but it looks like the situation is getting tense in Dobass now too.
The info is coming from quite a few sources that the bleating idiots are provoking DNR/LNR big time now, that the Nord Stream 2 is nearing its completion.
I didn't go through the whole video yet, but from what this guy from DNR is saying, is that it's getting more and more difficult for them to keep cease fire ( i.e. adhering to the Minsk protocol) one-sidedly.
The Ukrs are getting bolder and bolder, targeting civilian structures AND people. ( They send more and more drones now, so they know very well what they are doing - those are not the "unintended mistakes." )
Western media refuses to accept any footage that DNR people send them as a proof of Ukrainian aggression ( obviously they ( and Russia) are designated as "guilty party" no matter what, but we are talking about adhering to the Minsk agreement here.
So it looks like Zelensky is choosing the tactic of forcing DNR/LNR to hit back, and then to point finger at them as "guilty in breaking Minsk protocol" ( since the West is keeping silence, giving him green light for this kind of BS,) and then to ask for "more decisive actions against Nord Stream 2"
At least that's how they see it there, in DNR.
( In fact, I saw the report from yet another source 8 hours ago that Ukrs are bringing BMPs(?) in the area.)
And this is what DNR Basurin is saying; "In connection with no reaction coming from the international observers to continuous shelling of the towns and villages of the DNR, in order to protect them from Ukrainian aggression, the people's militia received the permission to respond with the preemptive fire" ( news flash from yesterday.) https://smotrim.ru/article/2531426
Moscow is growing increasingly concerned with escalation of Ukr. military actions in Donbass and appearance of Ukr. troops where they are not supposed to be according to Minsk agreement.
Last edited by erasure; 03-05-2021 at 11:42 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
