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Old 02-09-2018, 12:58 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,227,242 times
Reputation: 1742

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
This is a nutshell, exemplifies everything that is wrong with the current mentality.
Opposition to Putin = funded by the US

As long as this mindset prevails, progress will be slow. Most educated Russians see the bs that Putin is spewing to remain in power.

I suggest you check out Kasparov's book
Winter Is Coming: Why Vladimir Putin and the Enemies of the Free World Must Be Stopped (2015, Public Affairs)

When a chess champion speaks against you, then you know something is wrong.

Need I remind you what happened to, Boris Nemstov, ***** Riot and others.
People do not want Kasparov, Nemtsov or the Riot. Most educated people understand what it can lead to.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,227,242 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
Another thing I've noticed, is that you explicitly target the US in all your rants. What bout the UK, France, Germany...
Ukraine showed the cost of agreements with Germany and France. Zero.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:23 AM
 
4,432 posts, read 6,980,938 times
Reputation: 2261
Well Putin has such a high popularity rate at 83%, and it largely unheard of any political leader getting that high in my country, and some political leaders I thought were good. 83% even in the US for a President is unheard of either. John Kennedy approval was 70% approval through out his presidency, and that is the highest approval for any Post war president. Even the WW2 US president Roosevelt would never have gotten such high approval as well, and the election wins for him were not all great compared to Putin. I guess Putin must be doing a much better job for Russians than any American president has ever done to Americans in the last 100 years.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,227,242 times
Reputation: 1742
32 clean athletes were not allowed to enter the Olympiad. Disgrace to the Olympic movement.
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:53 AM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,227,242 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
32 clean athletes were not allowed to enter the Olympiad. Disgrace to the Olympic movement.
+ Including Olympic champions. Dirty Olympic games.
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:45 AM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,491,500 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
People do not want Kasparov, Nemtsov or the Riot. Most educated people understand what it can lead to.
You do realize you're only one person right. You can't make the choice for everyone. I don't like Trump and am not a big fan of Trudeau or Turnbull either, yet I accept the fact that they're leaders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
Ukraine showed the cost of agreements with Germany and France. Zero.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Are you suggesting that it was of no benefit to Ukraine?
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:49 AM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,491,500 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by other99 View Post
Well Putin has such a high popularity rate at 83%, and it largely unheard of any political leader getting that high in my country, and some political leaders I thought were good. 83% even in the US for a President is unheard of either. John Kennedy approval was 70% approval through out his presidency, and that is the highest approval for any Post war president. Even the WW2 US president Roosevelt would never have gotten such high approval as well, and the election wins for him were not all great compared to Putin. I guess Putin must be doing a much better job for Russians than any American president has ever done to Americans in the last 100 years.
83% can still be passed off as plausible, though it defies rationale in many ways. That's because humans ate simply not that unified in almost anything and especially politics.
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:59 AM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,491,500 times
Reputation: 5031
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
It all goes back to...pre-2012 times?

Before the "foreign agent law" was signed by Putin.

'The Russian "foreign agent" law, officially "On Amendments to Legislative Acts of the Russian Federation regarding the Regulation of the Activities of Non-profit Organisations Performing the Functions of a Foreign Agent", is a law in Russia that requires non-profit organizations that receive foreign donations and engage in "political activity" to register and declare themselves as foreign agents.[1'

Before that, it was a common practice that political opposition in Russia was funded by the US. In fact Kasparov himself was on a board of Heritage Foundation ( or one of its affiliates - don't remember now off top.)
That's all good on paper, but when one side holds such a strong grip on power, it opens the door to abuse. What's to say that most of the opposition hadn't been framed by Putin in order to make them look back and portray himself as the defender of Russian values.



Quote:
Well where do you think Putin learns all his tricks?

( I don't believe that he "funds Trump" by the way))))
He likely learned about it from his stint with the KGB, or any other Russian figure. It's not like the country doesn't have a huge historical pool to choose from.

I don't necessarily believe in the Trump allegations either and I'm saying that as someone who disliked him. Even I can see why he held such appeal to certain segments of the population.

Quote:
Because the nineties were orchestrated specifically by the US, not UK France or Germany.
They were not the ones sitting in Kremlin and issuing orders, that were signed by Yeltsin as presidential decrees.
All of those countries work together. Need I remind you that both France and Germany have attacked Russia in the past.
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Old 02-09-2018, 08:42 AM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,434,021 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milky Way Resident View Post
You do realize you're only one person right. You can't make the choice for everyone. I don't like Trump and am not a big fan of Trudeau or Turnbull either, yet I accept the fact that they're leaders.
Irrelevant. Max has the same views of a vast majority of Russians. Russias a country where one person with a pet service peacock can not stop a plane on the tarmac. Popular consensus and common sense seem to hold much greater sway there than in the west. ***** Riot wasn't worth listening to, it was just a stage prop in the propaganda war and they offended people with their little stunts. Russia isn't America or Canada, they do things their way and if the PC crowd here doesn't like it then tough.

I can see why the Russians prefer Putin. Erasure makes great points about the 1990s, the chaos of it. I know Russias history and I know the pain that was brought on the people by outside powers. Russians will always tolerate a strong leader who brings stability as opposed to a weak and pathetic leader (Yeltsin) that allows chaos to reign far and wide. The wests offerings to date such as Navalny don't get the eye of the people because they aren't capable.

Leave the Russians alone, work with them and they'll solve their own problems as they see fit. In the not too distant future someone else will take the reigns and they may change the way they do things but they will not be forced.

I've been hearing western voices telling Russians what Russian people can and can't do for decades. Max and the Russian people can make whatever choice they like. If they're poor and desperate or rich and high on the hog 20 years from now they'll have no one but themselves to blame then. In the end it should and will be their decision. Deal with it.
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Old 02-09-2018, 09:00 AM
 
403 posts, read 221,126 times
Reputation: 452
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
So far this is the only opposition to Putin that is not supported by the US ( West in general.)
This particular person who runs against Putin, and who was nominated by the CPRF and coalition of other left forces in Russia.
Do you see American media touting him ( as it touts Navalny/Nemtsov et al.)?
Do you see HIM coming to Washington DC for press-conferences?
If no, ask yourself why not?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGn4NvgoeDk&t=52s
I like the guy - what he is saying. I hoped that he could guide Russia into agriculture and Norwegian type of government (minus the king/tzar).
Something like a country (Norway, Sweden, Finland) that "maintains a combination of market economy and a Nordic welfare model with universal health care and a comprehensive social security system" wiki

OTOH though I like what he is saying it is hard for me to believe that he paid debts (billions of rubles still a lot of $$$) and built his kolhoz and all those buildings cultivating strawberries and maintaining dairy farm. For example, it is not that easy to run a successful farm of this size here in US.

Another thing is on his earlier videos he had a strange body language - like scratching his ears, nose, head as if he is uncomfortable or/ and not telling the whole truth. It made me think that he himself is "cultivated".
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