Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It be good to see the Rebels admit they shot down the Malaysia Airlines flight. After all the US did admit on hitting an Iranian passenger plane and that killed a similar number as the Malaysia airlines flight.
DNR/LNR are not the US.
Don't forget that all the cards were stacked against them, and they were condemned for their very existence under the "Democratic Ukraine" narrative and were thoroughly vilified.
So it's understandable that they are not going to admit anything.
Quote:
The rebels ransacking the passengers bags are disturbing. Sure I could understand their reasons to separate from Ukraine, yet their actions in response to this incident is really sad.
Look, they were basically the disorganized units of villagers, at the beginning of the war, and I think they were shocked and puzzled more than anything by this whole Malasian flight disaster, that literally fell on their heads. So no, they didn't handle the whole event properly of course. NOW four years down the line, things would have been handled differently I am sure.
Quote:
Anyway does Putin have control or limited control of the rebels in East Ukraine?
I am sure he does, since they are dependent on Russia's help.
The thing is, these people ( both LNR and DNR) are very left-oriented and basically nostalgic for Soviet times.
Whereas Putin's Russia is all about money and corporate stuff. I don't think he really wants to see these regions included in Russian Federation.
I remember that late spring and early summer 2014 very well. Porkochunko and Yatz had basically 2 factions in government and showing the government was in control was paramount to the IMF representatives and western perception in general. They weren't going to go giving freebies away if the government was weak.
LOL, America doesn't seek to dominate Russia. America seeks to defend Russia's neighbors from Russia because that is how the world keeps peace, by not invading neighbors and stealing their land.
You guys don't get it, Putin needs Russians to think they are under attack by a hostile west. They cannot be allowed to think the sanctions are actually for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. That would belie the notion that they are involved in the first place. Accompanying story: Ukraine's problems are self created due to straying from Russia.
His problem is how to resolve it. how to get Ukraine to stop resisting Russia so they can give Putin what he wants? When he gets that, Ukraine gets peace and sanctions are dropped, so he created incentives to get what he wants but they haven't worked. Thus the need to pretend that many in Europe are against the sanctions, and falling short of that, try to break EU unity. Putin believes that if the sanctions are dropped without Russia getting out of Ukraine, Ukraine will give up. He may be right, so that's why his goal of getting rid of sanctions is so important to him that he's willing to trash Russia's image by interfering in Western elections.
Instead, its creating the opposite effect by enhancing NATO unity. Just as his actions created the opposite effect inside Ukraine, it made them more united to move away from Russia's influence.
He's the master of spin and somehow Russians love him for ruining their country like this...
That's how I view things as well. Putin wants to show Russians that he's tough. What better way to distract the domestic population from internal problems then by pointing the finger at the west. I remember seeing videos where Russians were destroying Western food under directives from the government.
Now, Russia is hardly unique in this regard. Many Western countries deal with corruption as well, but at least it's more open. What really gets on my nerves is how the US gets blamed for many of these issues. There is a lot more distrust of government in Western countries which is a good thing. Even a popular president like Obama ( regardless of how one views him) would never garner an 80% + approval rating.
I don't think the US wants to break Russia apart either as it would be counterproductive to business. Many American corporations have traded and greatly benefited from.a strong Russian economy. If your average Russian has a higher PPP, then American products are likely to sell more.
There are absolutely no plans or desire by the West to break up Russia, as that would lead to uncontrolled chaos. What the West wants is that Russia becomes even remotely a "normal" country with whom you can deal and trade with.
I understand that Russians are due to their history paranoid of an invasion, but believe me, NATO is not out there to "get" Russia, because that would be a war neither could ever win, but only lose. In short; Russia is an enemy the West doesn't need.
Surrrre.
If that's what the *West* wanted, it easily could have it 30 years ago. Yavlinsky was in Washington with a very sensible plan, which would have achieved just that. But this offer was promptly declined, and the loans were promised for different arrangements, the kind that were turning Russian economy in a typical economy of the third world country. So the thuggery went ahead.
So no complaints pls. that Russia didn't turn into the "normal" country.
It is what it is now.
There are absolutely no plans or desire by the West to break up Russia, as that would lead to uncontrolled chaos. What the West wants is that Russia becomes even remotely a "normal" country with whom you can deal and trade with.
I understand that Russians are due to their history paranoid of an invasion, but believe me, NATO is not out there to "get" Russia, because that would be a war neither could ever win, but only lose. In short; Russia is an enemy the West doesn't need.
Except for the accidental insight provided by Robert Gates upon the USSR break up, when he revealed Cheney "wanted Russia herself to break up".
Except for the accidental insight provided by Robert Gates upon the USSR break up, when he revealed Cheney "wanted Russia herself to break up".
They are all in denial of the "key ingredient" here, and then they wonder why their *equations* don't work, all while blaming Russians for "misunderstanding" of true American intentions)))
Never mind. I know why. All this "opposition" has ties to the "Union of Right Forces" that served American interests back in the 90ies, which Russians don't want to see anywhere near their government now.
As in... "he opened his big mouth and blurted out what we knew all along anyways."
This kind of idiot?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
