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Old 05-02-2018, 02:58 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,434,021 times
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Someone on this thread pointed out there's a great devide between peoples rights and governments rights. In 1776 a group of rebels started a revolution in the New World. America was born.

I just don't see how one can be right and the other wrong.

A group of people in the Donbas rebeled and desire independence. Why not?

Simple.
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:19 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,188 posts, read 107,790,902 times
Reputation: 116087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Someone on this thread pointed out there's a great devide between peoples rights and governments rights. In 1776 a group of rebels started a revolution in the New World. America was born.

I just don't see how one can be right and the other wrong.

A group of people in the Donbas rebeled and desire independence. Why not?

Simple.
Really? Simple? If Russia foments separatist sentiments in Trans-Dnistria (Moldova), then those people should just split off, giving Russia more territory? Really? If it's so simple, why doesn't Russia let Yakutia go? The Yakut government came within one vote of choosing independence in 1990, but decided instead to work on their economic development first, as a precursor to independence. Do you think Russia's going to let them go? Of course not. Moscow already took steps to make sure that doesn't happen, in the late 1990's. And let's not forget Chechnya. Desire independence gets you nothing, unless it works in Moscow's favor.

Not so simple.
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Old 05-02-2018, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,227,242 times
Reputation: 1742
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
If it's so simple, why doesn't Russia let Yakutia go? The Yakut government came within one vote of choosing independence in 1990, but decided instead to work on their economic development first, as a precursor to independence.
You should not change the meaning of "the parade of sovereignties". Yakuts and other republics did not want to leave the Russian Federation (RSFSR at that moment).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
And let's not forget Chechnya. Desire independence gets you nothing, unless it works in Moscow's favor.
You simplify the desire for independence in Chechnya. Russia fought against radical military terrorist groups. This war continues in the Caucasus. Caucasus is a very complex region.
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Old 05-02-2018, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Russia
5,786 posts, read 4,227,242 times
Reputation: 1742
But you are right. Russia is strengthening the central power. This is the usual process of getting out of the crisis.
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Old 05-02-2018, 04:31 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,491,500 times
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Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Americans and their stooges in Kiev were baking that coup d'etat with such joy and in such a hurry, that few inconvenient but important details slept away from their memory, apparently. Such as Kosovo.
Do they think that someone like Putin have forgotten all about it, and wouldn't put this card on the table?
Rightfully so.
So it's not even about the "soft power" of Russians, it's something much more obvious.
Except that Ukraine wasn't the one in favor of Kosovo's secession, so pinning it on them doesn't make much sense.
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Old 05-02-2018, 04:35 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,851,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Americans and their stooges in Kiev were baking that coup d'etat with such joy and in such a hurry, that few inconvenient but important details slept away from their memory, apparently. Such as Kosovo.
Do they think that someone like Putin have forgotten all about it, and wouldn't put this card on the table?
Rightfully so.
So it's not even about the "soft power" of Russians, it's something much more obvious.
Does this mean that Russia is to recognize Kosovo?
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Old 05-02-2018, 04:36 PM
DKM
 
Location: California
6,767 posts, read 3,851,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
But you are right. Russia is strengthening the central power. This is the usual process of getting out of the crisis.
Yet Putin himself demands Ukraine decentralize its power to get out of the crisis Putin manufactured there.
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Old 05-02-2018, 04:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKM View Post
Does this mean that Russia is to recognize Kosovo?
That's the key. Either you recognize both or neither of them.
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Old 05-02-2018, 04:58 PM
 
5,428 posts, read 3,491,500 times
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Dear Russians

Stop using the Kosovo example as a pretext to carry out your own expansion, If you want people to recognize Crimea as Russian territory, then you should have held an actual referendum.
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Old 05-02-2018, 06:54 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
102,188 posts, read 107,790,902 times
Reputation: 116087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksim_Frolov View Post
You should not change the meaning of "the parade of sovereignties". Yakuts and other republics did not want to leave the Russian Federation (RSFSR at that moment).
.
Actually, Yakutia did. As I said, their parliament came on vote short of passing a motion to declare independence.
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