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The revolucion will not look at all like the civil war. The Free Staters will sit with their physical firearms and be hopelessly flanked perpetually by an enemy that will never actually enter the battlefield. The reality is, no person or group can hope to be self-sufficient and still hope to be effective in the marketplace. Those that come close will become the primary targets, with any imperfection magnified and put on display, and used as just cause for outlandish punishment.
On the left, renewed socialism is really the city-boss system realizing it can now get even bigger, and they have a considerable arsenal of tools they've honed over the years. Actually, I'm going to quit calling them socialists. True socialism has some merits, and those merits will be on full display in order to attract people. The ugly reality behind the propoganda machine is that it will be crony capitalism at its utmost. Businesses that participate and help perpetuate will be rewarded, while those that are in opposition or simply want to be left alone will be punished. At some point, people will all be faced with an ugly choice. Put their families and livelihoods at risk, or join mobster woke left. The benefits of joining will be much less than the penalties for not.
As to when, it is already happening. At a new client I was going through their legal records this week. A discovery had been made that certain employees no longer had valid work visas. They were asked to give their new ones, but they did not have it. Federal law requires employees to hold valid permissions in order to work. California law does not allow the termination of someone on grounds of immigration status. The company is held hostage by two directly opposed bodies of law.
It is very possible for a government to essentially make your right to exist illegal. What is profoundly disappointing is how weak the opposition is. It took one of the richest men in the world, Michael Bloomberg, to curb the excesses of NYC and to bring it back from the brink. No such hero was on hand for cities like Detroit and Cleveland.
This November, we face an awful choice. I expect the result will satisfy few, but I hope to be wrong. If the dissatisfied begin to determine that they will simply not follow Federal law, as many States have begun to do, we'll suffer a worse fate than civil war. We'll simply become an ungovernable entity.
As I have said many times, I do foresee the possibility of the red states or the blue states seceding from the U.S. in about 25-50 years, but if that happens, I think it will be the result of legal proceedings and not violence -- although if the violence continues and the government (state and/or federal) looks the other way, that might serve as a catalyst for some of the red states to secede.
I know this was said before RBG's death, but I used to agree with you on what you said here but depending how confirming her successor and the election plays out, I now see this possibly happening in just a few years, maybe even before the 2024 election!
I know this was said before RBG's death, but I used to agree with you on what you said here but depending how confirming her successor and the election plays out, I now see this possibly happening in just a few years, maybe even before the 2024 election!
The really stupid thing is that secession is not going to solve all the problems. The price of maintaining one's own military will go up along with the price of a great many goods. I mean goods that were formerly domestically shipped will now have to go through foreign customs and will get tagged with a pricey import tax I bet. The seceded former state(s) had better be self productive in something or else life will get a lot harder for the common people. Then if you want to visit that former state, you'd have to go through customs and maybe even have to purchase a visa beforehand. Then there's the constant threat of the rest of the U.S. re-invading that seceded territory later in the future which will cost more unnecessary bloodshed. Why do you think there is a European Union and a Schengen Area that allows free flow of goods and people? Why doesn't Europe throw up iron curtains everywhere like the sovereign states they really are? When Yugoslavia broke up did they achieve peace and harmony?
One thing that makes the United States so strong and powerful is its vast size. The U.S. seldom gave up territories it had owned, I can only think of the Philippines and the Bonin Islands off the coast of Japan. Break the U.S. proper apart and our neighbors may feel inclined to bully or even invade what comes out of secession. California and Texas may become part of Mexico again, New England, New York, and other formerly northern states might as well fold into Canada. Heck Russia and China might just launch a far off invasion because we're too distracted with breaking ourselves apart and we won't be able to defend ourselves. Europe, Africa, and Latin America will just watch and laugh hard at us. This is what civil war and secession will bring to the US, the opportunity for others to bully, harm, and potentially take us over. History tells that when smaller countries unify into one, they tend to become stronger and not the other way around. IMO this whole idea about secession is dumb, dumb, dumb, and will be a lot more harmful in the future than you'd think.
Well the British tried that tactic to keep the colonists in line. Insurrection and sedition. Didn’t work out so well. Way I see it is anything is possible. McWeigh blew up a federal building with little help. I guarantee you that Homeland security keeps tabs on all these groups. From the radical to the three stooges.. In Romania when it was communist...a evolution was started with the arrest of a priest who was speaking against the regime and the dictator was overthrown.
Castro overthrew Batista....
OTOH, the slaver rebels ended up dead a lot. True, a lot of the leaders that should have been hung ended up walking, but they lost a whole generation and the "civil war." They lost their slaves too.
The really stupid thing is that secession is not going to solve all the problems. The price of maintaining one's own military will go up along with the price of a great many goods. I mean goods that were formerly domestically shipped will now have to go through foreign customs and will get tagged with a pricey import tax I bet. The seceded former state(s) had better be self productive in something or else life will get a lot harder for the common people. Then if you want to visit that former state, you'd have to go through customs and maybe even have to purchase a visa beforehand. Then there's the constant threat of the rest of the U.S. re-invading that seceded territory later in the future which will cost more unnecessary bloodshed. Why do you think there is a European Union and a Schengen Area that allows free flow of goods and people? Why doesn't Europe throw up iron curtains everywhere like the sovereign states they really are? When Yugoslavia broke up did they achieve peace and harmony?
The only reason there was a Civil War is that the South started shooting. This time, if anybody starts shooting we will just gun them down. There's no way a state like Texas would secede, because it would dry up and blow away. Their whole economy runs on defense contractors, military bases, and federal oil leases. If it weren't for the United States, Texas would be a whole lot of cows and nothing else. The rest of the South lives on welfare. I don't see northern Republican states like Nebraska buying into that stupidity.
I really don’t see now as much different than the 60’s. Social change is brewing and people are protesting. I think talk of a civil war is silly. When Trump loses I fully expect him to try and incite his followers to riot.
TDS?
. . . .
In the many posts, I have seen partisan complaints thrown about. Pray tell, what is the difference between the "tax and bribe" group versus the "bribe and tax" group?
Neither one espouses securing Creator endowed rights (i.e. natural rights, natural and personal liberty, absolute ownership of private property, etc).
Americans have lived under "emergency rules" since 1933, and have had no lawful money in circulation.
After 87 years of incremental communism, there are still those who blame capitalism! Capitalism ended in 1933. That's when the people accepted that government could TAKE from one to GIVE to another. That abolished private property - the foundation of the communist manifesto.
Not 1 in 100,000 Americans can accurately define the republican form, its source and origin, and think that the current PEOPLES DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST REPUBLIC is what the Founders gave us. Americans claim to be the freest people, yet the majority have to get permission (license) and / or pay taxes (tribute) to live, work, buy, sell, hire, fire, treat the sick, run businesses, travel, hunt, fish, marry or own a dog.
If that's freedom, we need a new dictionary.
Of course, under stealth socialism, government didn't overtly nationalize all labor and industry. But if you stop and think, the government covertly controls all labor and industry, via regulations, and takes a cut, via taxes (44% of the GDP!). And contrary to the wishes of the Founders, the federal government has become the largest landlord, instead of being restricted to 10 square miles, and a few forts and needful buildings. The federal government owns around 640 million acres of land (about 28 percent) of the 2.27 billion acres of land in the United States of America. Imagine what could happen if every American was granted 2 acres - his share of that land? I doubt that we would have the homeless wandering the cities, that's for sure.
And what was the result of government meddling in health care? Once government criminalized the unlicensed trade in medicine, it ceased to be a right. It's now an expensive privilege. And what was the result of granting the monopoly to allopathy? The AMA gangsters shut down medical schools (450 down to 66) to create SCARCITY and higher fees for their "licensed" physicians. (Cuba has four times the number of physicians per capita, which is why medical care is cheap and plentiful there). Today, you're lucky to SEE a physician and wind up with a Physician's Assistant or other cheap alternative. Health insurance companies skim vast fortunes and drive up the cost due to the need for administrative staffs to manage the paperwork. Gone are the days of the lone physician operating a clinic out of his house. You need paper pushers, intake clerks, office managers, and all those warm bodies have their hands in our wallets.
War on Drugs? Decriminalize drugs, and destroy the profit margin for drug cartels.
If you really want to see meaningful change, return government to its original delegation of power - to secure rights, via adjudication of disputes, prosecution of criminals, and defending against all enemies foreign or domestic. . . AND NOTHING MORE.
__ End socialism __ and Cease taxing American labor and industry. Once there are no more taxes and administrative regulations, you will see expatriate companies flock back to the USA in a NY minute. As a side effect, tax shift inflation will disappear as well. (Where else do companies get the money to pay taxes if not from the customers?)
Imagine the economic BOOM from the return of manufacturing industries to the USA.
Instead of unemployment, there will be a labor shortage.
Unfortunately, the sheeple and muggles won't look up in time, and the USA will fall, crushed by the financial fiends and slaving collectivists.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 09-20-2020 at 09:58 PM..
Reason: Please do not use red text. Red text is used by moderators for editing purposes.
The revolucion will not look at all like the civil war. The Free Staters will sit with their physical firearms and be hopelessly flanked perpetually by an enemy that will never actually enter the battlefield. The reality is, no person or group can hope to be self-sufficient and still hope to be effective in the marketplace. Those that come close will become the primary targets, with any imperfection magnified and put on display, and used as just cause for outlandish punishment.
On the left, renewed socialism is really the city-boss system realizing it can now get even bigger, and they have a considerable arsenal of tools they've honed over the years. Actually, I'm going to quit calling them socialists. True socialism has some merits, and those merits will be on full display in order to attract people. The ugly reality behind the propoganda machine is that it will be crony capitalism at its utmost. Businesses that participate and help perpetuate will be rewarded, while those that are in opposition or simply want to be left alone will be punished. At some point, people will all be faced with an ugly choice. Put their families and livelihoods at risk, or join mobster woke left. The benefits of joining will be much less than the penalties for not.
As to when, it is already happening. At a new client I was going through their legal records this week. A discovery had been made that certain employees no longer had valid work visas. They were asked to give their new ones, but they did not have it. Federal law requires employees to hold valid permissions in order to work. California law does not allow the termination of someone on grounds of immigration status. The company is held hostage by two directly opposed bodies of law.
It is very possible for a government to essentially make your right to exist illegal. What is profoundly disappointing is how weak the opposition is. It took one of the richest men in the world, Michael Bloomberg, to curb the excesses of NYC and to bring it back from the brink. No such hero was on hand for cities like Detroit and Cleveland.
This November, we face an awful choice. I expect the result will satisfy few, but I hope to be wrong. If the dissatisfied begin to determine that they will simply not follow Federal law, as many States have begun to do, we'll suffer a worse fate than civil war. We'll simply become an ungovernable entity.
I believe Federal law always supersedes state law. California can enact all the ridiculous laws it wants, and "not allow termination of an illegal" definitely falls into the ridiculous category. But Federal law is pretty clear on this; anyone outstaying their visa, or here without a visa, must be deported.
Regarding the "awful choice", it's increasingly clear that Trump will win reelection, the Senate will remain Republican (a couple of GOP seats will flip to Democrat, and a couple of Dem seats will flip to GOP), and the House is in danger of flipping to GOP (something like 30 Democrat incumbents are in pro-Trump districts, and the GOP only need 17).
The Supreme Court situation has riled people up, but legally and historically, there's no precedent for a sitting President and same-party Senate to politely wait until after reelection. Dozens of Supes have been confirmed in an election year. Even Ruth Bader Ginsburg stated in 2016 that the Prez has the power. The Dems know this, despite their loud objections. It's all politics, all hot air and threats.
In the long run, the elections will happen, there will be some controversy over the mailed ballots, many of which will be lost or of questionable authenticity, and then we'll move on.
I think actually some of the rage and hysteria is beginning to fade. People are tired of politics; they're tired of lockdowns, and they want to get back to the easy life we were enjoying 8 months ago, with a hot job market, booming stocks, and the nation at peace. So what if we have a crazy President; at least he's getting stuff done. Biden has failed to articulate his vision and make the case for a change; sorry, Dems.
Civil war is not likely. More likely is simply that the most violent rioters will be (are being) arrested, which is causing these organized groups to fall into disarray. The statue pulling down, for example, stopped as soon as the Feds announced an old law would be enforced, up to 10 years in prison. Suddenly the vandals are not so bold. The civil unrest is a mile wide and an inch deep. As soon as the virus is gone, people will find more interesting things to do with their time.
Obviously, a civil war like we had in 1860 is not going to happen. But let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that once the election is over, everything is going to go back to normal.
Assuming that Biden wins, I fully expect ANTIFA and/or BLM to continue. But there will also be an armed insurgency that gets started on the right. I suspect it will get much worse before it gets better, if at all.
An Alt Right armed insurgency might go on for decades.
If Trump wins, I suspect that this will hold off the Alt Right from getting started for now. As far as ANTIFA and BLM, I doubt that Trump would be willing to put up with the nonsense any longer. He’ll probably ask Lightfoot, Durkan, Wheeler, or Frye if they want the Guard or federal agents. The difference will be that when they say no again, Trump won’t accept that answer. Due to his election win, he’ll be emboldened to declare it an insurrection and go against the Mayor’s wishes.
So if Biden/Harris wins, there will be much more violence. If Trump wins, there won’t be hardly any violence, unless he decides to let the Democratic cities continue on with their nonsense.
Personally, I am so tired of all this "Civil War looming" talk by the right and the "Revolution!" talk by the left.
Either way, none of are should be fixing for a civil war.
Civil war would be horrific but I think it is looming. And China as well as Russia would love to see it happen. The pandemic and protests really spotlighted how we have two polar opposites of ideology in this country.
Plus the scenario of Trump pushing quickly through a conservative justice followed by a Trump loss in November and the Democrats packing the court will cause a lot of damage and lead us closer to breaking the country in two. I actually think we are better of with 2 countries. We are too splintered as it is and I don't see anyone bringing us together. Each side just distrusts the other too much. Better to split it up legislatively then by war.
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