Will this lead to something bigger? (employment, generation, drug, soldier)
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There's the rub. "Reasonable suspicion" is not a brand new concept that suddenly popped up in this case. The courts have been ruling for decades, centuries, on reasonable suspicion. The police cannot enter your home unless they have reasonable suspicion, and they need to get a judge to agree that there is reasonable suspicion to get the necessary warrant to do so. In other words, the standard for reasonable suspicion is set pretty high.
Are we to believe that an Arizona judge would issue a warrant for the police to enter a home to demand papers, merely because the occupants of the house appeared to be of Hispanic descent? That is the test.
In the case of the truck driver in the OP, what was the offense for which the driver was detained, and thus scrutinized for residency status?
Exactly. We operate on reasonable suspicion already so whats the problem. It not anything new except that local officers can now check legal status when they reasonable suspicion that a subject that has committed a violation is not in the country legally.
The truck driver was detained by ICE to verify status when he didnt have required paper work at a weigh station.
Some of you have complaints about these new laws, but no solution. So, what are your solution offerings for the issues Arizona has with illegal immigration?
The number one thing that you will have to do is to penalize the business for asking them (in their countries)for hiring them and bringing them in. When the law came out in AZ before which was designed to penalize the business owners under Dammit Janet, there was only one incident. They ended up dropping all charges although, they had only nailed a person in management. The business had shut down. And this quietly went away. It made great headlines for Arapaio though. It was at this time that people started moving out, business' etc.
E-Verify is not a mandatory system. I think that has to do with the fact that if it was mandatory then the federal government would have to fund it. E-Verify has some very big problems. The onus is put on the business owner--and as usual, that is where the problems begin. The business owners that are on the up and up are wary because if it gets too complicated they aren't going to hire anyone with a name that even sounds of a different ethnicity. So, this means are American born people might be shut out of a job. A second problem is that once you are in the hot seat you have a limited time to produce your information and the older that you are the more opportunity there is to lose your BC and stuff. It happens. Peoples houses burn down, the lose it in traveling.
The third problem is the most obvious, get the paperwork that looks ligit, smells legit and kick it in----even though it is not legit.
The federal government has been looking at these problems and one of the answers was for a national ID card that uses the retina as an ID.
The next problem is industries that as a rule use undocumented workers/illegal aliens. The agricultural industry. They are one of the groups that fight against this. So, how are you to appease them?
This also means that hotels and restaurants are going to have to pay fair wages. Living wages. One of the problems is that the excuses to give jobs to undocumented workers keeps growing in industries. House cleaning, back of the house (restaurants) and canning industries, carpentry? roofing? See, people will work, but you cannot pay them 5 bucks an hour to do it and threaten them with deportation. You cannot house them in places without running water and electricity and threaten them with deportation. You can't steal money from their checks or pay them under the table and not risk legal action.
Our biggest problem is that we have a large amount of money that is paid in taxes by undocumented workers. The IRS has nothing to do with ICE. They take the money. It is their money that is going into Social Security.
When we don't have a massive loss of jobs that is going on, we have one continuous group of people that are out of work. Stay at home parents. We have approximately, 6 million women that are stay at homes. Somewhere around 200,000 stay at home dads.
TAKE A DEEP BREATH.
Those 6 million, two hundred thousand, are not going to have enough credits to qualify for social security when they retire. (There is a 10 year rule that applies here as well) So, they use their spouses working credits and get a social security check that is half the amount of their S/O's. They have not put into the system, yet they collect.
Does the IRS catch the undocumented workers? Yep. There is also a form that one can use to pay taxes directly to the IRS even though your not here legally. The IRS does not care. They just want to collect the money. That money is currently being used.
1. Recognize the industries that have notoriously used undocumented workers.
2.Nail the business' that bring them in, hard. Do not leave any room for the owners to hang everything up on a middle manager, fall guy, so they walk away clean. That isn't what you want.
3. Start having very real discussions about stay at home parenting and what that does to our system when there are no taxes being paid. Because if we don't have a work force paying into the system, then you don't have a real good argument for going to the IRS and saying HEY-turn them over to ICE.
" Your papers, please", this phrase was one of the most vile aspects of those communist states that the right wing in America feared we could become, for a government official to ask you for proof of citizenship was considered to be the ultimate in government control, now these same shrill talkers are whooping it up over the new Arizona law that requires just the thing they feared. What have we become?
Latest estimates show that there are 1,295,000 people in Arizona who describe themselves as Hispanic. A quarter of the state's population.
Now, Abdon was a US citizen, born in the USA. Exactly what "reasonable suspicion" was present, to lead authorities to believe that Abdon was NOT who he said he was, that he was NOT one of the million-plus perfectly legal Hispanics in Arizona?
Here's another frightening aspect. Every single Anglo in Arizona is now empowered to make a citizen's arrest, and detain any Hispanic, on "probable cause" of being an illegal alien. Or, for that matter, can detain any Anglo, on probable cause of being a Canadian illegal alien. What's going to happen to the snowbirds down there with Alberta plates on their cars?
jtur88;13929030] Now, Abdon was a US citizen, born in the USA. Exactly what "reasonable suspicion" was present, to lead authorities to believe that Abdon was NOT who he said he was, that he was NOT one of the million-plus perfectly legal Hispanics in Arizona?
Again The truck driver was detained by ICE to verify status when he didnt have required paper work at a weigh station.
Here's another frightening aspect. Every single Anglo in Arizona is now empowered to make a citizen's arrest, and detain any Hispanic, on "probable cause" of being an illegal alien. Or, for that matter, can detain any Anglo, on probable cause of being a Canadian illegal alien. What's going to happen to the snowbirds down there with Alberta plates on their cars?
There's the rub. "Reasonable suspicion" is not a brand new concept that suddenly popped up in this case. The courts have been ruling for decades, centuries, on reasonable suspicion. The police cannot enter your home unless they have reasonable suspicion, and they need to get a judge to agree that there is reasonable suspicion to get the necessary warrant to do so. In other words, the standard for reasonable suspicion is set pretty high.
You are so wrong that it's not even funny. After 9/11 the law was changed so that local, state and federal police can, do and will enter a home without a warrant.
Don't believe me, call the police and ask them.
If the police come to your door to ask you a few questions and see a bag of pot sitting on your table, they have every right to arrest you and search your home and it will stand up in a court of law.
Now if that bag of pot is hidden out of sight they can't come in a search your home, but if it's in plain sight you are so out of luck.
Same way if they think someone who they are looking for ran and hid in your house, they will search every room to find them.
Now they can't knock on your door and barge in without having reasonable suspicion just because they want to but if they are chasing someone who runs and hids in your home, it will get search.
Sure. In every state except North Carolina, a citizen is empowered to make a citizen's arrest if he has probable cause to believe that a person has committed a felony.
What kind of "fact" do you need that something COULD happen?
Are you saying that ICE will be called in every time a motorist or trucker has deficient papers associated with driving? Like, if you are driving in Arizona, and your car papers are not in order, ICE will be called in to determine if you are an illegal alien or not? And you will be handcuffed and taken into custody until a member of your family can deliver proper papers to the jailhouse. If you would not be, but Abdon was, then exactly what led the authorities to "reasonably suspect" that he was not who he said he was, but they would not have the same "reasonable" suspicions about you?
You are demanding that you, because of your ethnicity, can be classified as a "first class citizen", taken at your word, but a person of Hispanic ancestry forfeits that privilege that you hold so dear.
Sure. In every state except North Carolina, a citizen is empowered to make a citizen's arrest if he has probable cause to believe that a person has committed a felony.
What kind of "fact" do you need that something COULD happen?
LOL. How is that relevant to the new Arizona law? You stated: Here's another frightening aspect. Every single Anglo in Arizona is now empowered to make a citizen's arrest, and detain any Hispanic, on "probable cause" of being an illegal alien. Or, for that matter, can detain any Anglo, on probable cause of being a Canadian illegal alien. What's going to happen to the snowbirds down there with Alberta plates on their cars?
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How is that relevant to the new Arizona law? You stated: Here's another frightening aspect. Every single Anglo in Arizona is now empowered to make a citizen's arrest, and detain any Hispanic, on "probable cause" of being an illegal alien. Or, for that matter, can detain any Anglo, on probable cause of being a Canadian illegal alien. What's going to happen to the snowbirds down there with Alberta plates on their cars?
